Reliability and running costs

[Chris H72]

Okay so I know that nobody buys these cars because they are cheap to run! And I also know you lot are going to get fed up with me asking questions and just tell me to go out and get one bought!!

The thing is that I've always valued reliability in a car and in 27 years of motoring I've been fortunate enough to never own a car that has thrown huge repair bills (4 figures) at me. I've done my research and it does seem like the rs200 has a good reliable engine as long as it's looked after. I'm also not too worried about fuel economy as I know what to expect there. The only niggles I have are problems with the cambelt and the gearbox so I wonder if anyone can put me at ease. The cambelt is a known quantity, I'm fully aware that it's an expensive job but have there been many cases of the belts breaking and causing catastrophic damage, or has anyone here had direct experience about it. Also I've seen a couple of ads stating that the gearbox has been replaced and elsewhere on the forum I've read that this can cost up to a grand. These cars are only a few years old and I was wondering if the gearbox failing is relatively uncommon or whether you can spect that it will go at some point?

Sorry if I sound a bit paranoid about this. I'm aware that some people buy and run cars because they love them and don't really care about big bills or spending money. But with a new family and not the biggest income it matters to me. I wouldn't expect to run a sports car on a shoestring but on the other hand I'm not keen on something that is costing hundreds a month in repairs and maintenance.

So what would you say are the average running costs of the 200?

 

[nutnutwelshman]

@Chris H72 the cars are down to luck guys on here have done 60k with no problems I had problems at 15k it's luck

 

[Cossers]

@Chris H72 the cars are down to luck guys on here have done 60k with no problems I had problems at 15k it's luck

I'll echo this, it's a lotto TBH, good history does not tell you how the owner treats it when driving it, belt issue is easy, either it's been done or its £5-600 for it done and the gear box is again, a lotto

I'll be really honest and your prob not want to hear this, if you have a slush fund of a few grand that you can lay your hands on after buying the car just incase I shits itself then go for it, if you don't and the purchase is going to clean your clock I'd say leave it sadly

I had a Porsche c4s about 7 years back, that thing cost me countless night unrest, engine failure (which isn't uncommon) could land you with a bill of 15k!

 

[Chris H72]

Thanks cossers, honesty is always appreciated.

The purchase price wouldn't clean me out and there is money in the bank but dipping into it left right and centre wouldn't be popular with the wife!

What about aftermarket warranties? Does anyone have one and do they offer any kind of protection in case the worst happens? When I bought me celica I was talked into taking a 12 month warranty which I did regret when I got home. But then the water pump went pop and I made a successful claim (much to my surprise) which was a little more than the warranty cost so it paid off.

 

[Cossers]

No probs but in my experience it totally ruins the ownership experience if you continually worried about if things go wrong! Been there, done that, never again.

 

[Micah]

This was my problem before buying one and it drove my mates mad (who already owned one, and a 197 before that).
One day I just bit the bullet and started my search. You know when you've found the right one, especially if you're a cautious person. What helped was buying it from a main dealer with a 12m warranty included as standard.
I only test drove one other and that was a dog compared to mine. So I say - go out there and see a few, get a feel for condition, do the usual checks and you'll just know when you've found the right one, even if it takes a few months. We can always help out with advice or even view with you perhaps?

 

[paul jennings]

The problem you have with these cars is that as they are a performance car you don't know if it's been thrashed to an inch of its life but like any car do your homework and find out what common issues are on them as always a full service history and it's been done at the correct intervals is a must.
When viewing I look for tell tale signs like bodywork condition and it's got 4 matching good tyres if the car has mismatched cheap trees you know the previous owner has cut corners and makes you wounder what else they have neglected.

I also use a reg data finder on my phone which is free and tapping in the reg brings up all the previous mots and highlights any fails and advisories listing what they were so very helpful knowing the history.

Now I have one I plan on taking preventive measures hopefully to stop some of the common problems as it will be getting a gearbox oil change with a top quility oil and and I will be removing the engine scuttle cover and check for blocked drain holes plus anything else I think needs do to keep it maintained.


Paul

 

[///M]

Some good thoughts on this thread.

Yes it's a lottery to a degree, but you can do a lot to maximise your chances. You're right to be methodical and take your time.

As I always say in these situations, the buyers guide on here is a massive help. You should know it inside out and have it saved on your phone for quick reference when out looking at cars.

Prices are in a good place right now. Lots of very nice cars on the market for a decent price. It's a buyers market basically so don't give up, be prepared to spend a bit longer, and test drive as many as possible to get a feel for them.

Spend a bit more if you need to and get the car you're most sure of. The right one will stand out, if you're unsure at all, move on. You're spoilt for choice. Oh and be fully prepared to travel. If the right car is 200 miles away, so be it. It's a small price to pay for getting the right car.

If the owner of a car you're looking at is saying it needs this or that so he'll knock a bit off, that's usually an indication that the car hasn't been maintained perfectly. You want to look at the ones where the car is mint and the seller has written a really thorough advert.

Finally, keep an eye on the for sale section here like a hawk. Most of the cars for sale on here are good ones that have been looked after properly by an enthusiast owner.

Good luck.

 

[Jimmy]

As Mes says, cracking advice already written in this thread.

There has been one recent case on the forum of a belt breaking, resulting in an engine rebuild @KYFO.CO.UK was the unfortunate soul that this happened to - this was despite the fact he had paperwork to say that the work had been done... However this is ONE case among many, many other cars that have had the work done and had no further issues. The key point is make sure you have the paperwork confirming it has been done, or budget to do to the work yourself for the peace of mind.

Gearboxes - as above, pure lottery. No rhyme or reason for these failing/needing replacing. There are many cars on here that have done 10s of thousands of miles with no problem at all. However, some are on 2nd or even 3rd boxes. I would recommend having an amount of money set aside to cover this possibility (worse case scenario) but also take preventative measures - changing the gearbox oil regularly is a cheap but effective thing to do. Also, check for crunching on the test drive - walk away if there is any evidence of it.

To answer your last question: the running costs will vary from one person/car to the next, dependent primarily on mileage, age of car and luck. So really there isn't a definitive answer when it comes to the running costs, as far as repairs/maintenance go. I've had mine for 3 years now, and in that time I've had the following needing doing:

Rear brake caliper
Front and rear brake discs and pads
6 new tyres (2 due to a puncture in one)
Ball joint
Steering rack arms and bush
Front springs (one broken)
Thermostat housing
Handbrake cables
Track rod end
Exhaust (OEM had a blow - replaced with Scorpion aftermarket as it was cheaper than OEM).

These are all 'wear and tear' items rather than failures, and of course on top of regular servicing items. I am on 92k miles and have done ~10k a year since 2014 when I bought her. She is a daily driver and I like to drive her for pleasure, including big miles road trips every so often. So mileage and probably a bit of bad luck has caused it. Thankfully these items were spread over the three years, so although the sum total will be a lot, divided over the time of ownership; not so bad really.

Like yourself I don't have a money tree, however I work hard and save hard in order to own the most special car I've ever had. I put money away weekly into an 'R27 Fund' which goes a long way to covering maintenance and unexpected bills, etc.

You mention not wanting to spend hundreds of pounds a month - I honestly don't think you will have massive monthly costs relating to repairs and maintenance. You may well have to spend hundreds of pounds over the course of ownership, but it will be spread out. And also bear in mind that if work does need doing (perhaps similar to things on my list) then these replacement parts will last a good amount of time and could even be classed as 'one offs'.

Sorry for the ridiculously long post, but I wanted to try and give you the best, honest answer from an ownership perspective. Thanks for reading.

 

[sevenfourate]

^^^ Fantastic fact-filled and informative post Jimmy.

 

[///M]

@Jimmy epic post that mate. Top quality advice.

 

[Jimmy]

^^^ Fantastic fact-filled and informative post Jimmy.

@Jimmy epic post that mate. Top quality advice.

Cheers guys. I just wanted to be realistic for Chris. We all rightly and regularly praise these cars highly from their performance/fun/head-turning point of view, but there is that other side to them that I wanted to be up front about

 

[LOCKE]

Some good advice here once again. You can normally tell when a car has been misused. The gearbox is the main issue, also if belts are needing done knock £600 off the price.

 

[Chris H72]

Thank you guys, very informative stuff.

When I had my celica there was a forum bloke down the road who liked to fix them for fun on a weekend. That was a rare find! Just shows how useful the forums are though and how for the sake of £5 membership you can save a fortune.

 

[Christopher]

Echoing what @Jimmy posted above really. It's all about the car you buy, not the model as a whole.

I've only owned them from new, so I'm not much use, but as long as you buy a cherished one, you'll have done all you can.

They're not scary cars to run. In terms of drivers' cars, they're one of the cheapest to run! Just pick a good one. There's plenty of snotters around.

 

[Antti O]

@Jimmy how much was 2 original springs including labour? Or did you change springs yourself? I have right side spring little bit snapped.. It really dont ruin handling at all. It is like 1-2 cm bit. Maybe i replace both front springs some day.

 

[Jimmy]

@Jimmy how much was 2 original springs including labour? Or did you change springs yourself? I have right side spring little bit snapped.. It really dont ruin handling at all. It is like 1-2 cm bit. Maybe i replace both front springs some day.

The work got done at a Renault main dealer, the springs were an MOT failure, so they had me over a barrel. I paid £186 per side It was a bad day as a couple of other things needed doing at the same time, so it was a massive bill. In hindsight - and if I hadn't needed the car back that day - I would have got some aftermarket springs and saved myself a lot of money. You live and learn.

 

[Christopher]

The work got done at a Renault main dealer, the springs were an MOT failure, so they had me over a barrel. I paid £186 per side It was a bad day as a couple of other things needed doing at the same time, so it was a massive bill. In hindsight - and if I hadn't needed the car back that day - I would have got some aftermarket springs and saved myself a lot of money. You live and learn.

Ouch. The front springs are a little tricky to fit, but not £186 per side tricky!

 

[Jimmy]

Ouch. The front springs are a little tricky to fit, but not £186 per side tricky!

Yeah... part of the reason I'd be really reluctant to go back to a main dealer again! It was a horrible day!

 

[kevlar]

Bit of an odd situation for me owned mine when it was just two years old, while I owned it I had it serviced and apart from that had no issues with it - I found it fairly expensive to run at the time in terms of tax and petrol in the end my personal situation dictated that I sold it.

Owned various cars in between. Last year I found myself looking for another one, luckily I found my old car I bought it back as it had been loved by the owners after me luckily. I have spent a fair bit on it as the cam belt was due, then decided to add the cams, exhaust etc - this was my choice to do the upgrades, as its now a technically 3rd car for me, so its a toy car I drive when I want to, Im in a better personal position now, so In a position I can afford the ridiculous tax (just!), mpg is not a major concern now as its not my main car.

Having done the upgrades found out my manifold was going to need replacing at some point, which was a bit of a downer having just spent some serious coin on it, but in my personal opinion its not like replacing a manifold on a 1.1 fiesta that i loathe, Its a chance for me to do an upgrade, make the car better.

I would say buy one wisely, find the best one you can, I viewed a few and one was one owner (4 years) had around 18k miles on it, in theory it should have been really good - I drove around 60 miles to view it and it was not good and it was a standard car ie no recaros etc.

Regards the cambelt, I know people say buy a car thats been done, to me though If i had it done, I know what was done and who did it and any issues you can go back to them, yes it was expensive - but reassuring you know its actually been done.

As stated above though, if you worry and worry about it you will never do it! - about 15 years ago I bought an Elsie s1, worried like hell every time I drove it dreaded HGF, had it serviced had it mot'd, parked it up etc..in the end I had 1 issue with it and that was the alarm and it was resolved by me reading the owners manual! - Had I not taken the plunge I would have not owned one of the most fun cars I have ever had and some really good memories for me.