Glacier White 200 Cup
- Thread starter burrellbloke
- Start date
burrellbloke
Paid Member
We had a good day at Brands Hatch yesterday. We have been there before for summer evening track sessions but had not done a full track day there. It was a Javelin track day on the Indy Circuit.
The night before the track day the plan had been to put in a new ZPO tow eye extender, attach a tow strap and then finish things off by debadging the boot lid. The tow eye proved to be problematic as the thread in the crash bar seemed to be corroded or blocked. @EthanMenace removed the front bumper and crash bar and managed to get an OEM tow eye securely in to the hole but the ZPO refused to go in. We decided to just use the OEM tow eye as it was dark, late and cold by the time we had packed up the car.
Things started off poorly in the morning. The thermostat during the journey to Brands Hatch seemed to be broken and remained open so that the engine was not getting up to a proper temperature. It felt like it was not really coming out of a cold map and we were concerned that the car would be stuck in a cold map all day long.
When we got to Brands Hatch we realised that a spigot ring had fallen off the inside of one of the Oz Ultraleggera track wheels. Although we could have used the wheel without a spigot ring we did not want to risk it. After the sighting laps I made some enquiries and spoke with Rim World in Ashford (who were 6 miles away) but they did not have the right size and confirmed that no one local was likely to have an Oz sized spigot ring. Although lots of 75mm to 60.1mm spigot rings are available to order online and deliver none were available to collect the same day. The Clio is front wheel drive so we decided to put the track wheels on the front of the car with MRF ZTE tyres and run the Speedlines with PS4s on the rear.
I have now ordered another set of spigot rings to chuck in to the track day bag of bits including gaffer tape, cable ties and other rubbish that you take but do not expect to need.
The weather was a bit changeable yesterday. The forecast was cloud. The weather started off damp, got drier mid morning, then we had drizzle and had damp conditions with more rain. The weather got better in the afternoon but a dry line did not appear on the track until 4pm.
The first few sessions were interesting getting used to the car with no LSD. McClaren and Clark Curve corners before the main straight were really slippy and we had to be extra careful not to push the car too hard. A few cars spun out in this area causing yellow flags. The track was quiet with probably less than 15 cars on track at the busiest times and I think that we only had one red flag all day.
Apart from the lack of grip from a LSD the car felt good. The Corbeau bucket seats were surprisingly comfortable and once I was secured in place with the harnesses I did not have to worry about sliding around in the seat like I used to with the Recaros, I could use concentrate on driving. The ZPO shifter also made a noticeable and positive difference. Although the gearbox has a crunch when changing in to fourth gear the gearbox did not cause any problems or refuse to engage when I was shifting from 3rd to 4th. I did most of the circuit in 3rd and 4th gear with the occasional shift to 5th down the main straight approaching Paddock Hill Bend. The brakes were spot on, the Godspeed J hook discs at the front with DS1.11 front pads had a great bite and were far more effective at braking that the brakes on my GR Yaris are on normal roads.
As the day went on we both managed to reduce our lap times in the morning until it rained and the car struggled for grip. @EthanMenace seemed to enjoy the challenge of driving in worse conditions but I just found it frustrating. I liked finding the limits of the car and rescuing moments or oversteer or understeer but I just wanted a dry line with grip.
Although the weather was changeable we kept the same tyre combination throughout the day as the rain was never constant, it just kept topping up the dampness level on the track. The chap next to us in garage 12 with his Porsche spent most his his time changing from slicks to wets, then wets to slicks, and back again.
As the track was drying out before lunch @EthanMenace did a longer stint of 27 laps. This was useful to confirm that the car was capable of doing being pushed harder for longer. The thermostat worked on track and the car was getting up to temperature.
There was a good mix of other cars at the track day. There were was a group of MG ZT or ZS owners, the saloon shape MG with big 2.5l v6 engines. They were racing around like the Track Baguettes in a group nose to tail and were generally quite fast. There was only one other Clio there, and that was a Clio 200 but it was being driven reasonably slow and shared between about 6 people. Unfortunately there was nothing that was equally powered, or being driven at the same speed round the track. There was a Porchse Boxster who could not seem to understand why a Clio was faster than him both round corners and on the straight. He declined to give way repeatedly. One driver that did annoy me was a supercharged Mini. He was getting really close to other cars and at one stage ended up in a gravel trap and was black flagged, he refused to go in to the pits for a few laps, when he did come out he did a few more laps before limping around the track. Normally I would not want to wish anyone any bad thoughts but if his car broke he deserved it.
The afternoon was good and by 4pm a dry line appeared. I did a long final session of 26 laps and was able to get a consistently better times until I managed to snag the best lap of the day of 01.03.15. This time narrowly beat @EthanMenace time of 01.03.21 that he set when the weather was drier in the morning. I felt particularly smug with my lap time as it is the first time I have managed to get a better time than @EthanMenace over the course of a day. Fortunately for me there was no time for @EthanMenace to go back out on the track to take advantage of the best track conditions of the day.
I do not consider myself to be a particular fast driver but I do enjoy a track day where I can achieve better lap times over the course of a day. At Brands Hatch I was able to make significant improvements in carrying speed through some parts of the course and by the end of the day I was really having fun which was a big contrast to my earlier and wetter laps.
Despite missing a spigot ring the odd combination of MRF ZTEs and Michelin PS4s worked okay.
I noticed throughout the day that the Akra sounded spectacular. The boot lid has been gutted and has no trim on it. The boot switch has had the rubber part from the button squiggled in to the large rectangular hole. But, you can now hear the sound of the exhaust as you drive about as the boot is held down by Aerocatches and there is clear space for the sound from the back of the car to come in to the rear of the interior. The car still has a full trim apart from the boot. In some gears at a particular rev range the exhaust sounds great inside the car.
Cadwell is the next track day booked for 18th March 2022. Before then there will be a few minor changes to the car. @EthanMenace has acquired a pair Corvette bake ducts.
The fog lights can be removed and the ducts inserted. The rear of the car needs to be debadged and we need to find a new black badge for the front of the car. The electrical problems continue but they do not seem to be causing major problems as the car functioned at the track day. It would be nice to have electric windows, an interior light and a radio but those issues can wait.
The car is having the rear quarter damage repaired next week so I am looking forward to then treating the car to some TLC with my amateur attempts to clean up the paintwork.
Our current plan is to do the engine and gearbox swap in early April as that will give us a 4 day weekend. We have no track days booked for April so we could do Cadwell in March and not worry too much if there are issues as the next track day is at Thruxton in May.
The night before the track day the plan had been to put in a new ZPO tow eye extender, attach a tow strap and then finish things off by debadging the boot lid. The tow eye proved to be problematic as the thread in the crash bar seemed to be corroded or blocked. @EthanMenace removed the front bumper and crash bar and managed to get an OEM tow eye securely in to the hole but the ZPO refused to go in. We decided to just use the OEM tow eye as it was dark, late and cold by the time we had packed up the car.
Things started off poorly in the morning. The thermostat during the journey to Brands Hatch seemed to be broken and remained open so that the engine was not getting up to a proper temperature. It felt like it was not really coming out of a cold map and we were concerned that the car would be stuck in a cold map all day long.
When we got to Brands Hatch we realised that a spigot ring had fallen off the inside of one of the Oz Ultraleggera track wheels. Although we could have used the wheel without a spigot ring we did not want to risk it. After the sighting laps I made some enquiries and spoke with Rim World in Ashford (who were 6 miles away) but they did not have the right size and confirmed that no one local was likely to have an Oz sized spigot ring. Although lots of 75mm to 60.1mm spigot rings are available to order online and deliver none were available to collect the same day. The Clio is front wheel drive so we decided to put the track wheels on the front of the car with MRF ZTE tyres and run the Speedlines with PS4s on the rear.
I have now ordered another set of spigot rings to chuck in to the track day bag of bits including gaffer tape, cable ties and other rubbish that you take but do not expect to need.
The weather was a bit changeable yesterday. The forecast was cloud. The weather started off damp, got drier mid morning, then we had drizzle and had damp conditions with more rain. The weather got better in the afternoon but a dry line did not appear on the track until 4pm.
The first few sessions were interesting getting used to the car with no LSD. McClaren and Clark Curve corners before the main straight were really slippy and we had to be extra careful not to push the car too hard. A few cars spun out in this area causing yellow flags. The track was quiet with probably less than 15 cars on track at the busiest times and I think that we only had one red flag all day.
Apart from the lack of grip from a LSD the car felt good. The Corbeau bucket seats were surprisingly comfortable and once I was secured in place with the harnesses I did not have to worry about sliding around in the seat like I used to with the Recaros, I could use concentrate on driving. The ZPO shifter also made a noticeable and positive difference. Although the gearbox has a crunch when changing in to fourth gear the gearbox did not cause any problems or refuse to engage when I was shifting from 3rd to 4th. I did most of the circuit in 3rd and 4th gear with the occasional shift to 5th down the main straight approaching Paddock Hill Bend. The brakes were spot on, the Godspeed J hook discs at the front with DS1.11 front pads had a great bite and were far more effective at braking that the brakes on my GR Yaris are on normal roads.
As the day went on we both managed to reduce our lap times in the morning until it rained and the car struggled for grip. @EthanMenace seemed to enjoy the challenge of driving in worse conditions but I just found it frustrating. I liked finding the limits of the car and rescuing moments or oversteer or understeer but I just wanted a dry line with grip.
Although the weather was changeable we kept the same tyre combination throughout the day as the rain was never constant, it just kept topping up the dampness level on the track. The chap next to us in garage 12 with his Porsche spent most his his time changing from slicks to wets, then wets to slicks, and back again.
As the track was drying out before lunch @EthanMenace did a longer stint of 27 laps. This was useful to confirm that the car was capable of doing being pushed harder for longer. The thermostat worked on track and the car was getting up to temperature.
There was a good mix of other cars at the track day. There were was a group of MG ZT or ZS owners, the saloon shape MG with big 2.5l v6 engines. They were racing around like the Track Baguettes in a group nose to tail and were generally quite fast. There was only one other Clio there, and that was a Clio 200 but it was being driven reasonably slow and shared between about 6 people. Unfortunately there was nothing that was equally powered, or being driven at the same speed round the track. There was a Porchse Boxster who could not seem to understand why a Clio was faster than him both round corners and on the straight. He declined to give way repeatedly. One driver that did annoy me was a supercharged Mini. He was getting really close to other cars and at one stage ended up in a gravel trap and was black flagged, he refused to go in to the pits for a few laps, when he did come out he did a few more laps before limping around the track. Normally I would not want to wish anyone any bad thoughts but if his car broke he deserved it.
The afternoon was good and by 4pm a dry line appeared. I did a long final session of 26 laps and was able to get a consistently better times until I managed to snag the best lap of the day of 01.03.15. This time narrowly beat @EthanMenace time of 01.03.21 that he set when the weather was drier in the morning. I felt particularly smug with my lap time as it is the first time I have managed to get a better time than @EthanMenace over the course of a day. Fortunately for me there was no time for @EthanMenace to go back out on the track to take advantage of the best track conditions of the day.
I do not consider myself to be a particular fast driver but I do enjoy a track day where I can achieve better lap times over the course of a day. At Brands Hatch I was able to make significant improvements in carrying speed through some parts of the course and by the end of the day I was really having fun which was a big contrast to my earlier and wetter laps.
Despite missing a spigot ring the odd combination of MRF ZTEs and Michelin PS4s worked okay.
I noticed throughout the day that the Akra sounded spectacular. The boot lid has been gutted and has no trim on it. The boot switch has had the rubber part from the button squiggled in to the large rectangular hole. But, you can now hear the sound of the exhaust as you drive about as the boot is held down by Aerocatches and there is clear space for the sound from the back of the car to come in to the rear of the interior. The car still has a full trim apart from the boot. In some gears at a particular rev range the exhaust sounds great inside the car.
Cadwell is the next track day booked for 18th March 2022. Before then there will be a few minor changes to the car. @EthanMenace has acquired a pair Corvette bake ducts.
The fog lights can be removed and the ducts inserted. The rear of the car needs to be debadged and we need to find a new black badge for the front of the car. The electrical problems continue but they do not seem to be causing major problems as the car functioned at the track day. It would be nice to have electric windows, an interior light and a radio but those issues can wait.
The car is having the rear quarter damage repaired next week so I am looking forward to then treating the car to some TLC with my amateur attempts to clean up the paintwork.
Our current plan is to do the engine and gearbox swap in early April as that will give us a 4 day weekend. We have no track days booked for April so we could do Cadwell in March and not worry too much if there are issues as the next track day is at Thruxton in May.
R20BTG
Paid Member
MRF on the front and PS4 on the back on a damp track, love the DGAF attitude!
burrellbloke
Paid Member
I wasn't going to waste a track day.
It worked out okay as it was a bit damp. It might have been different if it was glorious sunshine and the rear end was searching for grip.
Tarticmonkey
Paid Member
Sounds like a good day! And also sounds like.a typical boxster driver
burrellbloke
Paid Member
I managed to put together my best lap of the day in Race Render.
I really should stop shuffling the wheel around as if I am driving home from work.
I really should stop shuffling the wheel around as if I am driving home from work.
R20BTG
Paid Member
Agreed, your steering wheel hand position needs work. It will become important when you need to put some correction to a slide, then what is just as important is taking off the correction quickly to avoid over correction.
When you keep your hands on the wheel as much as possible and move your hands with the wheel, you instantly know where ‘top dead centre’ is because of your hand position. Quickly adding a quarter turn of correction and taking it off again requires no hand movement along the wheel rim, just rotational movement with the wheel.
I’m no racing driver but take a look at this example from Donington in December:
www.instagram.com
My hands stay in the same place on the wheel, I need a correction at the mid point through Craners, I can apply it quickly and crucially take off the correction just as quickly to maintain the necessary steering angle without my hands moving relative to the wheel whatsoever. It takes no time.
Contrast to this hand position taken from your lap:
Pic 1 - your brain is going to know exactly when your wheels are pointing forward because of your hand position on the wheel, no thought is required;
Pic 2 - your hands are now in the same position as before but you’ve got 1/4 turn of lock applied. If you were to lose traction at this point and need quick and accurate steering wheel correction, you are going to struggle to calibrate how much to apply and what hand movements are required to get that wheel pointing in the right direction again.
At speed, corrections need to become second nature and instinct as you won’t have time to think about it too much. Shuffling your hands like that is likely to end up in a tank slapper as you go back and forth scrabbling the wheel trying to counter the car’s behaviour instead of having the ability to effectively grab it by the scruff of the neck and say ‘no, you’re going that way where I tell you’
When you keep your hands on the wheel as much as possible and move your hands with the wheel, you instantly know where ‘top dead centre’ is because of your hand position. Quickly adding a quarter turn of correction and taking it off again requires no hand movement along the wheel rim, just rotational movement with the wheel.
I’m no racing driver but take a look at this example from Donington in December:
Iain Macfarlane on Instagram: "@ryjeps82 head shake at the end cracks me up Zero degrees outside, greasy track, a bit of a dry line starting to appear so I decided to try 5th gear through Craner Curves. “Don’t think she’s ready for 5th”"
105 likes, 0 comments - r20btg on December 11, 2022: "@ryjeps82 head shake at the end cracks me up Zero degrees outside, greasy track, a bit of a..."
www.instagram.com
My hands stay in the same place on the wheel, I need a correction at the mid point through Craners, I can apply it quickly and crucially take off the correction just as quickly to maintain the necessary steering angle without my hands moving relative to the wheel whatsoever. It takes no time.
Contrast to this hand position taken from your lap:
Pic 1 - your brain is going to know exactly when your wheels are pointing forward because of your hand position on the wheel, no thought is required;
Pic 2 - your hands are now in the same position as before but you’ve got 1/4 turn of lock applied. If you were to lose traction at this point and need quick and accurate steering wheel correction, you are going to struggle to calibrate how much to apply and what hand movements are required to get that wheel pointing in the right direction again.
At speed, corrections need to become second nature and instinct as you won’t have time to think about it too much. Shuffling your hands like that is likely to end up in a tank slapper as you go back and forth scrabbling the wheel trying to counter the car’s behaviour instead of having the ability to effectively grab it by the scruff of the neck and say ‘no, you’re going that way where I tell you’
EthanMenace
Paid Member
Agreed, your steering wheel hand position needs work. It will become important when you need to put some correction to a slide, then what is just as important is taking off the correction quickly to avoid over correction.
When you keep your hands on the wheel as much as possible and move your hands with the wheel, you instantly know where ‘top dead centre’ is because of your hand position. Quickly adding a quarter turn of correction and taking it off again requires no hand movement along the wheel rim, just rotational movement with the wheel.
I’m no racing driver but take a look at this example from Donington in December:
Iain Macfarlane on Instagram: "@ryjeps82 head shake at the end cracks me up Zero degrees outside, greasy track, a bit of a dry line starting to appear so I decided to try 5th gear through Craner Curves. “Don’t think she’s ready for 5th”"
105 likes, 0 comments - r20btg on December 11, 2022: "@ryjeps82 head shake at the end cracks me up Zero degrees outside, greasy track, a bit of a..."
My hands stay in the same place on the wheel, I need a correction at the mid point through Craners, I can apply it quickly and crucially take off the correction just as quickly to maintain the necessary steering angle without my hands moving relative to the wheel whatsoever. It takes no time.
Contrast to this hand position taken from your lap:
Pic 1 - your brain is going to know exactly when your wheels are pointing forward because of your hand position on the wheel, no thought is required;
Pic 2 - your hands are now in the same position as before but you’ve got 1/4 turn of lock applied. If you were to lose traction at this point and need quick and accurate steering wheel correction, you are going to struggle to calibrate how much to apply and what hand movements are required to get that wheel pointing in the right direction again.
At speed, corrections need to become second nature and instinct as you won’t have time to think about it too much. Shuffling your hands like that is likely to end up in a tank slapper as you go back and forth scrabbling the wheel trying to counter the car’s behaviour instead of having the ability to effectively grab it by the scruff of the neck and say ‘no, you’re going that way where I tell you’
This is really well explained. i’ve always tried to do this because that’s what i see racing drivers doing and because people have told me to, but never actually thought about why!
Or do what I did and stop supplying content with your hands on show
burrellbloke
Paid Member
Agreed, your steering wheel hand position needs work. It will become important when you need to put some correction to a slide, then what is just as important is taking off the correction quickly to avoid over correction.
When you keep your hands on the wheel as much as possible and move your hands with the wheel, you instantly know where ‘top dead centre’ is because of your hand position. Quickly adding a quarter turn of correction and taking it off again requires no hand movement along the wheel rim, just rotational movement with the wheel.
I’m no racing driver but take a look at this example from Donington in December:
Iain Macfarlane on Instagram: "@ryjeps82 head shake at the end cracks me up Zero degrees outside, greasy track, a bit of a dry line starting to appear so I decided to try 5th gear through Craner Curves. “Don’t think she’s ready for 5th”"
105 likes, 0 comments - r20btg on December 11, 2022: "@ryjeps82 head shake at the end cracks me up Zero degrees outside, greasy track, a bit of a..."
My hands stay in the same place on the wheel, I need a correction at the mid point through Craners, I can apply it quickly and crucially take off the correction just as quickly to maintain the necessary steering angle without my hands moving relative to the wheel whatsoever. It takes no time.
Contrast to this hand position taken from your lap:
Pic 1 - your brain is going to know exactly when your wheels are pointing forward because of your hand position on the wheel, no thought is required;
Pic 2 - your hands are now in the same position as before but you’ve got 1/4 turn of lock applied. If you were to lose traction at this point and need quick and accurate steering wheel correction, you are going to struggle to calibrate how much to apply and what hand movements are required to get that wheel pointing in the right direction again.
At speed, corrections need to become second nature and instinct as you won’t have time to think about it too much. Shuffling your hands like that is likely to end up in a tank slapper as you go back and forth scrabbling the wheel trying to counter the car’s behaviour instead of having the ability to effectively grab it by the scruff of the neck and say ‘no, you’re going that way where I tell you’
Very sensible advice. I know before I get in the car my hands should stay in the same place on the wheel wherever it is turned but then I start driving and I slip in to bad habits.
Last edited:
Helpimonfire
Paid Member
I've never found I need any more steering lock on track than just over a half turn. I keep my hands at 3 and 9 as much as I possibly can and cross over until my arms touch. All of the pro drivers I've had in the car for tuition have all said my hand position is spot on. It's difficult to get into the habit but I've only had to release from those positions when I've got it wrong and need to let the steering wind itself out to correct a slide.
burrellbloke
Paid Member
Here are some of the track day photos from Brands Hatch.
The rear Aerocatches look okay going in to Paddock Hill Bend.
The car needs a proper tow strap and some brake ducts to make it look less like a road car.
Mandatory bridge shot showing off the mismatched wheel and tyre combination.
The rear Aerocatches look okay going in to Paddock Hill Bend.
The car needs a proper tow strap and some brake ducts to make it look less like a road car.
Mandatory bridge shot showing off the mismatched wheel and tyre combination.
burrellbloke
Paid Member
When we got the full fat last year it was cheaper than most 200s as it had some damage to the drivers side rear quarter.
The chap selling it said that it had been scraped against a wall.
The car has now been fixed and the damage has been repaired.
I can now look at the car without feeling a sense of shame for owning a damaged Clio.
In other news the second keycard was finally sent through by the original owner meaning that I now have a spare key for the car.
The chap selling it said that it had been scraped against a wall.
The car has now been fixed and the damage has been repaired.
I can now look at the car without feeling a sense of shame for owning a damaged Clio.
In other news the second keycard was finally sent through by the original owner meaning that I now have a spare key for the car.
burrellbloke
Paid Member
The place that did it is called Scuffs R Us and are a few minutes from where I live. They were recommended to my by my brother. The paintwork looks good but they have been less careful with other parts of the car. They have damaged the cill plate and could have removed it without damaging it. Also they have broken a clip on the rubber trim that goes round the window. To be fair my windows are not working at the moment so that may have caused them a problem. I would have expected them to give me a call sand say something like, "We can't get off the cill plate without damaging it," or, "We cannot get the window trim off", before then being pragmatic and cracking on with the repair.
I have another cill plate in good condition because @EthanMenace had removed one from the cup shell. It just took a bit of patience and heat to get the cill plate off without damaging it.
Alex recommended Dunmow Coachworks to me https://www.dunmowcoachworks.co.uk/ He said that they are the only place he would trust with one of his cars but they were a bit too far away from me - they might be closer to you.
I have another cill plate in good condition because @EthanMenace had removed one from the cup shell. It just took a bit of patience and heat to get the cill plate off without damaging it.
Alex recommended Dunmow Coachworks to me https://www.dunmowcoachworks.co.uk/ He said that they are the only place he would trust with one of his cars but they were a bit too far away from me - they might be closer to you.
Seems very difficult to find a body shop that’s A1 hence me asking and hoping for a recommendation. I’m seeing Alex next week. I’ll ask him about Dunmow. They’re not that far and I’d travel for the the right job
burrellbloke
Paid Member
I gave the Yaris a wash today. I got carried away and took off the wheels to give them a good clean.
The Yaris comes from the factory with studs and nuts as standard. I did not realise how easy life was with a stud and nut kit.
I have added a stud and nut kit to my list of things to get for the Clio now.
The Yaris comes from the factory with studs and nuts as standard. I did not realise how easy life was with a stud and nut kit.
I have added a stud and nut kit to my list of things to get for the Clio now.
RSRowe
Paid Member
burrellbloke
Paid Member
EthanMenace
Paid Member
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