Glacier White 200 Cup

[RSRowe]

I'd pull the starter out and put some power across it before you start ripping the loom apart.

 

[R20BTG]

Good point, when my starter died at Croft it went from fully working one minute, to nothing the next. No error messages, full dash display as normal, but turn the key and nothing.

 

[burrellbloke]

That’s got to be annoying, I hate chasing electrical faults. The TDC is easy to get to from underneath and only needs a 10mm socket/spanner to remove. It’s a 60 second job. Might be worth popping it out and measuring the resistance to rule it out if nothing else. It’s an easy start (no pun intended).

The TDC sensor was swapped from the cup to the new car. CLIP diagnostics should show if the sensor is incorrectly showing it as moving/active.

But, I will try anything at the moment to cross it off the list of possible problems.

 

[burrellbloke]

I'd pull the starter out and put some power across it before you start ripping the loom apart.

Good idea.

The car has started although only a few times since we had problems, and started without any terrible noises suggesting that something mechanical is about to start.

It is still worth doing to cross it off the list.

 

[Tarticmonkey]

Just my two penneth here on the starter.

Whilst not my clio, I had the exact issue on the on my R53. Intermittent starting issue- I naively thought it was related to earthing due to it going from perfect to nothing. One day I went and got nothing at all car wouldn't even crank over. Tried my usual fuse box out trick to sort earthing to get it to work (I was using the car a lot at this point and had the fuse box out at least 3 times in a week and didn't see it as being a bigger issue- dumb I know) . During turnover starter motor made no horrid noise, didn't produce smoke or anything of that nature (or any of the symptoms wikihow listed).

 

[burrellbloke]

I plugged the car in to Clip to see if it was throwing up any obvious error codes today.

One error code did show up - ET062 which is related to the flywheel and TDC sensor. I was also poking around looking at various settings and in the UCP configuration is said that the engine type was a D4F which is clearly not right. I changed that over to a F4R.

The car is still not starting so I have done what I should have done at the very start and consulted the Renault workshop manual. The early steps in that suggest:

1. Check the battery
2. Check the starter motor
3. Etc., etc...

Today was too wet to work on the car outside so that is a task for tomorrow - go through the workshop manual step by step and cross off each stage. I have added the extract from the workshop manual just in case it is of assistance to anyone else.

Two positive things happened today:

1. The Recaros were sold and the buyer collected them and paid for the rest of them without any haggling; and
2. Having got some money we decided to order some ZPO harness bar guides rather than use some zip ties, and get a new ZPO tow eye adaptor for the front of the car as the other one is bent.

Unless we magically solve the starting problem tomorrow the GR Yaris will go to Snetterton next week. I am not sure whether I really want to take the Cio or the Yaris as both would be great to drive on track.

 

[burrellbloke]

We checked the fuses in the engine bay and UCP today with a multimeter. They are all working correctly. The UCP does not seem to have any obvious signs of water damage and the connectors are not corroded.

We then followed the workshop manual that suggested putting 12v across the starter motor positive terminals to see if it would start. The starter motor was silent. We tried it on the Cup carcass and that resulted in the starter motor on that car coming to life.

The starter motor is tucked behind the engine and sits under the exhaust manifold. It is really difficult to get to it. At the moment we have managed to get the starter motor unbolted from the gearbox side but we are now having difficulties trying to get the wires off the terminals to slide the motor out.



If anyone have replaced a starter motor before have you got any sensible advice on how to get the nuts off of the terminals? At the moment the first nut is just spinning when it has been loosened off.

 

[burrellbloke]

Problem solved. The starter motor from the new car is off.

 

[burrellbloke]

Whoop, whoop! The new car has finally started.

The starter motor was dead.



After testing the cup starter motor and fitting it to the new car it continued to work in place.

Thank you to everyone who suggested trying simple things such as checking the fuses and the starter motor. These suggestions were like a nagging reminder to look at basic solutions which turned out to be correct.

The car is still on axle stands as it needs a few issues sorted before it can be taken for an extended test drive:

1. The Akrapovic back box needs to go on to the car
2. The diffuser needs to be bolted on
3. The bucket seats need to be bolted on
4. The harnesses need to be installed again

 

[R20BTG]

Nice one good to hear!! [emoji1360]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[turkie172]

Yea I had to fix the starter after a manifold change I put the heat shields clips around the body of the motor and not around both so had to remove them together to fix it as the heat shield was touching the positive terminal blowing the starter fuse and giving the message "steering unlocked" when trying to start.

Very good to get final result make sure you have clearance between the heat shield and terminals until I had time to fix it from above I pushed a bit of mud flap rubber between them.

 

[burrellbloke]

I noticed a difference in the cup and full fat chassis today. The full fat has got a metal loop on the drivers side front arch near to the front arm.



The cup chassis has not got this metal loop.

 

[Maidens1979]

I don’t think I’ve got that loop on my full fat 2009 clio 200

 

[Helpimonfire]

I believe that's only there for moving the shell around the factory. I don't think it serves any real purpose

 

[burrellbloke]

We went to Snetterton yesterday for the first track day of 2023. Progress on the new Clio as been a little slow since replacing the starter motor. It has not done any road miles since it has been starting again. Without knowing if it was reliable enough to put through a track day we decided to do the only sensible thing and took the GR Yaris instead.



It was cold yesterday. When we arrived there was frost everywhere and it was about -2. The track was not frozen, but it took until the afternoon to properly dry out and warm up.



I have had the GR Yaris for a few months and have enjoyed the immense grip and the 4 wheel drive. I thought that that the GR Yaris would be capable of matching or bettering the best laps that we had set at Snetterton in the 200. @EthanMenace managed to do a lap at Snetterton in October 2022 that was 2m 17s. That was the reference lap that I expected us to match.

I went out for a very careful first session when the track was still very, very cold. By the second corner of the first lap I nearly lost the back of the car even thought I was driving slow and had 4 wheel drive. Lap times came down during the morning from 3m 00s to a more respectable 2m 32s just before lunch as the track dried out and warmed up. I don't go to track days to clock up the best time but I always like to time the laps to see if my driving has got any better.

There was only one 197 or 200 at Snetterton, there were a few 172s which seemed really fast. I tried chasing down a blue 172 but could not catch him. I am not sure how standard the 172 was but I was expecting the extra power and grip to make up for my average driving skills to be able to catch him.

There were no more than 45 cars booked on to the track day so the track was quiet. There were no more than 3 or 4 red flags all day. Most of the cars on track were front wheel drive hatch backs. A lot of cars spun off at some point during the day but the flat back recovery trucks were not needed yesterday.



As the day went on a I realised that we were never going to get a lap time that was as good as 2m 17s. My Yaris is a Circuit Pack with PS4s tyres, 4 wheel drive with a LSD at the front and back. Other than that is is standard apart from some camber bolts to give it about -2.5 degrees of camber at the front and -2 degrees of camber at the back. The Yaris was struggling to corner or carry speed through the corners like the Clio had done before. That may be down to the conditions, but it seemed like it was more of a grip issue and better tyres on the Yaris would have provided a lot more grip. I have got no doubt that a better driver could get a better time out of my Yaris. By the ed of the day @EthanMenace managed to do a lap time of 2m 23s.

I have compared the RaceBox data from laps in the Clio from October and the Yaris yesterday. The Clio does corner better, it is slower in terms of the top speed by 5mph, but the minimum speed is better for the Clio and the cornering Gs are also better in the Clio.



Snetterton was fun. I have not done a track day since September 2022 so it was great to get out and drive on track rather than be limited to road legal driving on public roads. I enjoyed pushing the Yaris further than I had done on the road. But what I was really pleased with was that the Clio the we had built, and are rebuilding, was probably capable of keeping up with or going past the Yaris in the same conditions.

 

[Big Ben]

Fantastic to hear a real life comparison between the two. I believe it was conditions that was holding the Yaris back as I’ve seen some of them fly round places like Cadwell with no chance in hell of a Clio hanging with them. Admittedly don’t know if they were standard or not.
Look forward to catching you boys on a day soon in some warmer weather

 

[burrellbloke]

Fantastic to hear a real life comparison between the two. I believe it was conditions that was holding the Yaris back as I’ve seen some of them fly round places like Cadwell with no chance in hell of a Clio hanging with them. Admittedly don’t know if they were standard or not.
Look forward to catching you boys on a day soon in some warmer weather

The Yaris times were probably slower as neither @EthanMenace nor I pushed as hard as we would in the Clio. There was no kerb smashing or exceeding track limits in the Yaris.

It would be good to catch up soon.

 

[Tarticmonkey]

What would you say is more fun on track? Clio or Yaris?

 

[EthanMenace]

What would you say is more fun on track? Clio or Yaris?

I would say Clio but not by a massive amount.

The yaris is obviously much more capable but there’s something about being strapped into a bucket seat, the induction sound of the v6 airbox, the occasional pop from the akrapovic exhaust and slamming through the gears while revving the engine all the way out just makes it feel more race car even if you probably are going slower than you would be in a yaris!

 

[burrellbloke]

I enjoyed the Yaris but it felt far too comfortable. The Clio is just a bit more on the edge and more exciting to drive on a track.



Here is some non-Clio related track day photo spam.