Best track tyre

[mike harper]

Slicks will not have reviews. Slicks are made to do a job and that is rarely more than an hour's total running or in the case of GT's, more than a tank of fuel. It is not uncommon at all to come across posts from people wondering why their part worn slicks have not lasted a morning. 3 to 3.5 mm is the typically the most rubber you get on a slick. You will get some generic ones, such as sprint slicks, or Hill Climb which are ridiculously soft but would be toast after 2 to 3 laps of most circuits. If you are running a championship that used slicks you would most likely be taking to the manufacture to get the tyre construction and compounds tweaked you what you need. You would then of course be buying several hundred tyres across the year. The ones you can get from Demon Tweeks etc will have been designed for something, just that they are now selling them openly. No slick is made specifically for track day use. If you are racing then stuff like how quickly they come on, if they are 2/10ths quicker, and why, and how long they remain competitive matters, it is not something that should matter at all on a track day. What you will find however is that thy will place a great deal more strain on the car. You would ideally have spring, damper and geometry set up to cope with this and you do run the risk, if you over grip "normal" suspension of just making the car feel dull.

Thanks for the reply and certainly echoes some of the questions I have in my own mind.

I love the handling of the std clio - feels like it’s really on the edge on track, and you have to really drive it.

My ideal would be the same handling traits but at a quicker overall speed. I don’t want to compromise the handling for outright lap time. To get an inert, stable, car that is 20% a lap quicker would be very boring.

I can well imagine I’ll chase my perfect result and then end up reverting it to stock hence my seemingly inane questions
All the responses are helpful though in shaping the overall picture of what I want to do

 

[NickD]

Thanks for the reply and certainly echoes some of the questions I have in my own mind.

I love the handling of the std clio - feels like it’s really on the edge on track, and you have to really drive it.

My ideal would be the same handling traits but at a quicker overall speed. I don’t want to compromise the handling for outright lap time. To get an inert, stable, car that is 20% a lap quicker would be very boring.

I can well imagine I’ll chase my perfect result and then end up reverting it to stock hence my seemingly inane questions
All the responses are helpful though in shaping the overall picture of what I want to do

Here is the grumpy old man opinion.
I see across social media on track based groups and obsession with slicks, like it is some miracle driving improvement. What it is basically doing is compensating in most cases for a lack of skill. The grip compensates for mistakes and flatters the driver. The tyre may allow the driver to drive at 110 or 120% of their actual capability while actually only being at 70% of theirs. To get the most out of them you have to do everything harder. To kill understeer you have to brake harder and much later meaning your brakes will take a server pounding and you put the energy into them in a far shorter distance so they get hotter. You ball joints and all those things renown for wearing out are getting far more load put through them and if you have no slippy diff then you are still compromised on corner exit in getting power down. Finally if you do get faster, you just end up behind slower traffic quicker. There is a great deal to be said for driving slower cars as fast as you can.

 

[bobbyross96]

Interesting points being made here over the last few days. I had a puncture on the way to my first trackday and ended up borrowing a pair of wheels wrapped in slicks for the front end. When going back for a second time on road tyres I didn't have nearly as much fun (this aligns with what @NickD says as I had much less experience so they no doubt made up for a lack of skill).

Getting some track time in a few weeks and have been offered a set of Dunlop slicks if I can find alloys for them. I believe @N0ddie will be there too running Cup 2s so it'd be interesting to compare trackday suitability/ general usability (if I can find rimmies and the scottish weather surprises me) and report back here.

 

[Big Ben]

I’ve done a few trackdays and had various tyres. Slicks you take liberties on and go much faster lap time wise but as Nick said they’re only compensating for the fact you’re not very good!
Direzzas were excellent. Couldn’t believe how stable they were in high speed cornering but hefty price tag. Yoko AD08’s were good but nowhere near the level of previously mentioned. PS4 go off too quick and shouldn’t be used in dry conditions imo.
So I’m in the market for new rubber. Not getting slicks or Direzzas. Ticked that box. I’m after an arrive and drive tyre that’s slightly more track focussed than road. Won’t stop me having fun being a couple of seconds slower per lap and without timing who’s gonna know anyway.
r88r AR1 & MRF are on the list. Cup 2’s seem expensive

 

[RSRowe]

Cup 2’s are arrive and drive imo. Usually be had for about 100 quid a piece I thought? (225/45 was cheaper than 215 last time I looked)

There’s no middle ground in my opinion. It’s either AD08R, and then you’re straight into the realms of 6-700 quid + for a set of DZ’s or AR1’s.

I bought a set of medium compound Kuhmo V70a for 400 off eBay, but managed to ruin the front 2 days (Definitely me driving like an idiot though)

I’ve moved over to the herd compound now, but these aren’t as cheap. I’m still yet to try them in the damp, but they’re meant to be very good.

 

[massivewangers]

Here is the grumpy old man opinion.
I see across social media on track based groups and obsession with slicks, like it is some miracle driving improvement. What it is basically doing is compensating in most cases for a lack of skill. The grip compensates for mistakes and flatters the driver. The tyre may allow the driver to drive at 110 or 120% of their actual capability while actually only being at 70% of theirs. To get the most out of them you have to do everything harder. To kill understeer you have to brake harder and much later meaning your brakes will take a server pounding and you put the energy into them in a far shorter distance so they get hotter. You ball joints and all those things renown for wearing out are getting far more load put through them and if you have no slippy diff then you are still compromised on corner exit in getting power down. Finally if you do get faster, you just end up behind slower traffic quicker. There is a great deal to be said for driving slower cars as fast as you can.

I think this is probably true of all elements of car modification for track use. So many people buy a car and reel off a list of modifications that they've convinced themselves that they "need" before they can go on track but, in most cases, they don't actually add very much. The people I know that have the most fun are often the ones in the cheapest and most basic cars. A more extreme/capable car is not necessarily a more fun car and I would always advocate that, if you want to maximise your enjoyment of driving on track, money is much better spent on tuition than on modifying the car.

Of course, for many, modifying the car is fun in itself, so I don't begrudge it at all, but it's definitely not an essential for track days, other than making sure you have decent pads/fluid, which is usually the thing that road cars struggle with.

In terms of tyres, any decent road tyre is probably fine for most people.

 

[Big Ben]

Cup 2’s are arrive and drive imo. Usually be had for about 100 quid a piece I thought? (225/45 was cheaper than 215 last time I looked)

There’s no middle ground in my opinion. It’s either AD08R, and then you’re straight into the realms of 6-700 quid + for a set of DZ’s or AR1’s.

I bought a set of medium compound Kuhmo V70a for 400 off eBay, but managed to ruin the front 2 days (Definitely me driving like an idiot though)

I’ve moved over to the herd compound now, but these aren’t as cheap. I’m still yet to try them in the damp, but they’re meant to be very good.

I make you right on the no middle ground. Will investigate Cup 2’s but heard a couple of horror stories from people on here which is off putting. @peter

 

[peter]

Will investigate Cup 2’s but heard a couple of horror stories from people on here which is off putting. @peter

from what i read on the internet people rave about the cup 2, so maybe i had a bad set (twice) or it's just my driving. i much more prefered the yoko AD08R. i've got the AD08RS on the car now, but haven't used them on a dry track yet. if they are as bad as people say, i don't really know what to get next. maybe federal 595 RS-R's or 595 PRO's. would love to try a true semi slick like the MRF, but maybe that's a bit overkill for my stock suspension.

@Big Ben ... i'd definitely go for MRF's of AR-1's on your car.

 

[N0ddie]

I make you right on the no middle ground. Will investigate Cup 2’s but heard a couple of horror stories from people on here which is off putting. @peter

Avoid the Cup 2s if you "go for it" on trackdays. They simply cannot cope and "fall to bits". I will not be running them again on our 200. I'll get one clockwise (Knockhill can be done both directions) session before both fronts will be "destroyed".

Front right after a reverse direction sesh at Knockhill:

 

[peter]

Avoid the Cup 2s if you "go for it" on trackdays.

exactly what i think of them. absolutely no idea why some people recommend them for track use.

They simply cannot cope and "fall to bits".

very true.

 

[NickD]

from what i read on the internet people rave about the cup 2, so maybe i had a bad set (twice) or it's just my driving. i much more prefered the yoko AD08R.

You need to consider the idiot / sensible opinion ratio of the internet.

 

[NickD]

Cup 2’s are arrive and drive imo. Usually be had for about 100 quid a piece I thought? (225/45 was cheaper than 215 last time I looked)

There’s no middle ground in my opinion. It’s either AD08R, and then you’re straight into the realms of 6-700 quid + for a set of DZ’s or AR1’s.

I bought a set of medium compound Kuhmo V70a for 400 off eBay, but managed to ruin the front 2 days (Definitely me driving like an idiot though)

I’ve moved over to the herd compound now, but these aren’t as cheap. I’m still yet to try them in the damp, but they’re meant to be very good.

I would say the hard, 91, V70 is usually considered as less than ideal in the wet!

 

[RSRowe]

Thanks for the info Nick

 

[NickD]

Understand that owners that have bought a Porsche or other performance car and decide they want to give it a go, fit Cup2's to drive to Spa etc. to do some track driving in between Latte's and checking out each others sunglasses. And then to drive home on a soaking wet Belgian motorway in comfort not upsetting the object of their sexual desire sat in the passenger seat. In that they are brilliant. They are not intended as a serious track tyre.

I wrote this a while ago to tyre to help people understand their tyres a bit better. https://www.motmotorsport.co.uk/in-the-beginning.html

 

[PAUL JA]

We had to use Pirelli Trofeo for Timeattack, expensive but decent tyres, far better than the Nankang we used previously.

 

[Onrus]

Has anyone used the Hankook RS4 tyres as a arrive and drive track day tyre? I’m looking at getting a set. Very good value for money here in Aus. at $150 a tyre and people seem to rate them but not seen any Clio drivers use them.

 

[NickD]

If anyone wants to try the MRF ZTR, £10 per tyre + delivery.

 

[suj]

@RSRowe get your purse out!

 

[Lawton438]

Messaged

 

[RSRowe]

@RSRowe get your purse out!

On it