Who's using Cup Racer / R3 bits?

[A1axx]

Ah, well getting them sorted within a month isn't gonna happen! Lol! The EE brackets and the bump steer stuff could be done though.

Yea I'm going to be very lucky if I can get it all by then! Will be fitting the kit this week and waiting patiently for shafts.. my engines also sat in the back of my van at the moment [emoji23].

Seems considerably more than the mk2 rollcentre kit, but it is all genuine Reno which is nice


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[Northloopcup]

Yea I'm going to be very lucky if I can get it all by then! Will be fitting the kit this week and waiting patiently for shafts.. my engines also sat in the back of my van at the moment [emoji23].

Seems considerably more than the mk2 rollcentre kit, but it is all genuine Reno which is nice


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Well I do these for the mk2's, but now I'm a mk3 owner, I'm looking to do something with them too. In an ideal world I'd like to do something to correct roll centres and bump steer, but allow the retention of the standard driveshafts.

 

[TB Rich]

The issue is entirely because the wishbone ball joint is horizontal so you can't just sleeve it like the mk2.

If you can 3d scan some EE brackets and adjust the model to re-position the bottom ball joint hole down Xmm, it's just a cnc away from being done. The Xmm needs to match the distance that the Cup Racer track rod ends sleeve those down by, and purposely ignoring the extra 9mm rack spacers. That then means the kit then becomes very plug and play for even average spanner men, simply bolt on EE's and change the TRE's.

I've been thinking of doing this for ages now and have access to a 3d scanner and the FEA software etc (critical if you plan to sell these). But it's getting hold of some EE brackets that someone wont miss for a couple of months, and ideally stock and Cup Racer ones so they can be compared.

 

[A1axx]

Well I do these for the mk2's, but now I'm a mk3 owner, I'm looking to do something with them too. In an ideal world I'd like to do something to correct roll centres and bump steer, but allow the retention of the standard driveshafts. View attachment 18305

Yea a mate of mine has done a kit for the mk2 now.

Yea I know, it is a shitter about the shafts, but depending what they cost in this batch it might not be too bad.

Im surprised the mk2 isn't as sensitive to the length of driveshaft, they seem to widen the track a bit too. The racer kit only adds like 4mm a side, but need to be a bit longer.

The issue is entirely because the wishbone ball joint is horizontal so you can't just sleeve it like the mk2.

If you can 3d scan some EE brackets and adjust the model to re-position the bottom ball joint hole down Xmm, it's just a cnc away from being done. The Xmm needs to match the distance that the Cup Racer track rod ends sleeve those down by, and purposely ignoring the extra 9mm rack spacers. That then means the kit then becomes very plug and play for even average spanner men, simply bolt on EE's and change the TRE's.

I've been thinking of doing this for ages now and have access to a 3d scanner and the FEA software etc (critical if you plan to sell these). But it's getting hold of some EE brackets that someone wont miss for a couple of months, and ideally stock and Cup Racer ones so they can be compared.

It's a nice idea to retain the the shafts, but tbh it's more bump steer correction & extra camber than anything. Like when you compare the correction on a mk2!

How much does custom making them like that cost, it's a fairly complicated little part, and costs like £100 a side second hand




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[TB Rich]

scanning, fea and 3d printing of prototypes all free - brother works for an oem in italy and says he can get them done as a side project. Then I just punt the model around for best price cnc'ing.

For me and what I'm building the car around, longer shafts are not a viable option as it compromises the usability more than I would be prepared to make - not only reduced turning radius but also unusable amounts of camber.
If I had the time and inclination for it to be a track only car it wouldn't be on this car either, having owned nothing but fwd I've got that itch that won't go away. Cheap mk3 mx5 I think some point soon! anyway.....

Yeah I hadn't realised the Cup Racer EE's were so expensive second hand, I might now look out for some cheap standard spare ebay ones - and if you can measure the collar on the Racer TRE then that'll be the measurement we drop the ball joint hole down.
In fact you'll surely have some spare standard EE's

 

[A1axx]

scanning, fea and 3d printing of prototypes all free - brother works for an oem in italy and says he can get them done as a side project. Then I just punt the model around for best price cnc'ing.

For me and what I'm building the car around, longer shafts are not a viable option as it compromises the usability more than I would be prepared to make - not only reduced turning radius but also unusable amounts of camber.
If I had the time and inclination for it to be a track only car it wouldn't be on this car either, having owned nothing but fwd I've got that itch that won't go away. Cheap mk3 mx5 I think some point soon! anyway.....

Yeah I hadn't realised the Cup Racer EE's were so expensive second hand, I might now look out for some cheap standard spare ebay ones - and if you can measure the collar on the Racer TRE then that'll be the measurement we drop the ball joint hole down.
In fact you'll surely have some spare standard EE's

Haha keeping all of that so it could be changed back!

Yea if the machining was cheap it's worth it, wants to be made from steel though


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[TB Rich]

Billet of 7075 would likely be fine, the point is though that without doing FEA it's pissing in the wind guess work. Luckily I can have that done.
Well I'm sure you wouldn't miss them for a couple of months!

 

[A1axx]

Billet of 7075 would likely be fine, the point is though that without doing FEA it's pissing in the wind guess work. Luckily I can have that done.
Well I'm sure you wouldn't miss them for a couple of months!

Apparently the Renaultsport billet ones break on the kerbs!


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[TB Rich]

Interesting, though who knows what material they used, and maybe they were just machined as identical replacements. FEA would show up stress and fracture points so correct materials and structural enforcement can be made to the model if needed.
If it turns out nothing but an oem spec cast piece would do, well then it's game over - but as it's oem machines and software doing the work for me I'll go along with what ever it says lol.

 

[A1axx]

Interesting, though who knows what material they used, and maybe they were just machined as identical replacements. FEA would show up stress and fracture points so correct materials and structural enforcement can be made to the model if needed.
If it turns out nothing but an oem spec cast piece would do, well then it's game over - but as it's oem machines and software doing the work for me I'll go along with what ever it says lol.

Not exact copies





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[TB Rich]

Do you know where they break (and material they used)?

 

[A1axx]

Wouldn't be sure on that at all.


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[A1axx]

Adaptors for track rod ends


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[DannyAG200]

I'm more than sure you can count me in for shafts

Josh if you can do them bits you've said, for rack and bump then also count me in for some

 

[A1axx]

I'm more than sure you can count me in for shafts

Josh if you can do them bits you've said, for rack and bump then also count me in for some

Bump adaptors just straight from rsport, try rentune too


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[A1axx]

I have spare flanged tre nuts if anyone needs 2!


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[jacool]

i believe EE brackets are made from steel if You order them from Renualt Sport France (as i did - i've read few years back that aluminium ones were fabricated for UK championship due to some design failure of eariler ones in 2006 and stock shortages at Dieppe of redesigned versions) I know a guy in Netherlands who should be able to source some secondhand steel ones for about half the price.
My driveshafts were extended 38 mm per side as measured by Renault garage and i run 2*55' (near 3*) negative camber but should work with less than that as well i suppose.
Since 'specialsts' i've chosen before for building me a wiring loom and ECU mapping ended up being amateurs i couldn't drive my car properly with cup racer setup till last week. Frankly right now we are trying to make ABS work with custom loom and standalone so no chance again but from what i have experienced so far i can say, ironically, my car suffers from bump steer a lot.
Have to investigate it more but i'm wondering if it have sth to do with my anti-rotation tie-rods being oem and as a result too short ???
I'll do some more testing when i have my car back but right i have full cup racer setup up front except from anti-rotation links so they are first to blame i guess. Haven't had any issues with my custom driveshaft so don't think they could affect (assuming they're poorly measured) bump steer.
Thoughts welcome.

 

[A1axx]

i believe EE brackets are made from steel if You order them from Renualt Sport France (as i did - i've read few years back that aluminium ones were fabricated for UK championship due to some design failure of eariler ones in 2006 and stock shortages at Dieppe of redesigned versions) I know a guy in Netherlands who should be able to source some secondhand steel ones for about half the price.
My driveshafts were extended 38 mm per side as measured by Renault garage and i run 2*55' (near 3*) negative camber but should work with less than that as well i suppose.
Since 'specialsts' i've chosen before for building me a wiring loom and ECU mapping ended up being amateurs i couldn't drive my car properly with cup racer setup till last week. Frankly right now we are trying to make ABS work with custom loom and standalone so no chance again but from what i have experienced so far i can say, ironically, my car suffers from bump steer a lot.
Have to investigate it more but i'm wondering if it have sth to do with my anti-rotation tie-rods being oem and as a result too short ???
I'll do some more testing when i have my car back but right i have full cup racer setup up front except from anti-rotation links so they are first to blame i guess. Haven't had any issues with my custom driveshaft so don't think they could affect (assuming they're poorly measured) bump steer.
Thoughts welcome.

If its the guys at Spirit racing, I have tried a few times to get the EE brackets but wouldn't sell. I bought from Rentune.

The shorter anti rotation links would angle the ball joint on the end of the wishbone.

I think that the 38mm shafts allow for using less camber, 25mm was measured on a Clio 197 with standard top mounts. Quite possible when measuring your top mounts could have been set for the least camber and measured as 13mm longer. I need to run at least 3.5 degrees anyway. The EE brackets added 2.5 degrees of negative camber to the standard car!

I can't comment on what is the right length of shaft, so many variables, where do you set the top mounts, ride height etc, how much camber do you run.. The Cup racers are not able to run less than 3.5 degrees as far as I know..

 

[jacool]

At the time of measuring top mount's were set at 2,5 degrees (2*30') but before Cup steering rack with less turns lock2lock were installed (I believe it was measured at extreme turning angles) and indeed EE barackets added more than 2 degrees right away. Now I'm about 3* to learn the car again with semis on, will increase when on slicks.
Yes, according to manual cup racers are adviced not to run less than 3 degrees.

 

[A1axx]

At the time of measuring top mount's were set at 2,5 degrees (2*30') but before Cup steering rack with less turns lock2lock were installed (I believe it was measured at extreme turning angles) and indeed EE barackets added more than 2 degrees right away. Now I'm about 3* to learn the car again with semis on, will increase when on slicks.
Yes, according to manual cup racers are adviced not to run less than 3 degrees.

Ahh I see, have you fitted the rack limiting stops?

And sounds good btw! I cant wait to drive it again