Should I get one?
- Thread starter ECG1000
- Start date
At the end of the day you guys can argue the toss- whether you like it or not ive given the guy the right advice for HIM, it may not suit everyone but thats the market[/QUOTE]
Like I said Steve, we've all been there. The dealer and trader will get the bible out and tell you how little yours is worth, then put the bible (funny enough) away and tell how much his is worth. Then drive past the following morning and by science its £1000 more than he gave you. Then more science about warranty and forecourt costs to justify it...
Its not a personal thing and I respect your view, and I'm not expecting you to speak up for every car dealer or trader, but a balanced approach\view. After all like I said, name me a car equal to a 197 that isn't hard to sell at the moment?
I'm biased but I still stand by my claim that an equally spec cup would cost you more less than a R27. If nothing more than the fact there were only 500 made.
Like I said Steve, we've all been there. The dealer and trader will get the bible out and tell you how little yours is worth, then put the bible (funny enough) away and tell how much his is worth. Then drive past the following morning and by science its £1000 more than he gave you. Then more science about warranty and forecourt costs to justify it...
Its not a personal thing and I respect your view, and I'm not expecting you to speak up for every car dealer or trader, but a balanced approach\view. After all like I said, name me a car equal to a 197 that isn't hard to sell at the moment?
I'm biased but I still stand by my claim that an equally spec cup would cost you more less than a R27. If nothing more than the fact there were only 500 made.
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Like I said Steve, we've all been there. The dealer and trader will get the bible out and tell you how little yours is worth, then put the bible (funny enough) away and tell how much his is worth. Then drive past the following morning and by science its £1000 more than he gave you. Then more science about warranty and forecourt costs to justify it...
Its not a personal thing and I respect your view, and I'm not expecting you to speak up for every car dealer or trader, but a balanced approach\view. After all like I said, name me a car equal to a 197 that isn't hard to sell at the moment?
I'm biased but I still stand by my claim that an equally spec cup would cost you more less than a R27. If nothing more than the fact there were only 500 made.[/QUOTE]
Tapping this out on the I phone so there may be spelling errors. What I have tried to give the guy is a price range that covers private and dealer sales. I think the bottom line is that most people know that a trader when buying these cars will offer against what margin they want. This is why main dealers tend to offer the least as they are covering margins plus overheads, where as some traders have substantially less overheads.
In terms of your argument around being difficult to sell, it's something I tried to highlight with my post on a 197. In these tough times apart from the usual things like mileage/owners it's spec that sells these cars. I stick to a strict spec on all models which is the top trim for all cars, on a 200 that needs to be cup chassis and recaros as a minimum, with things like speedlines, cup spoiler things that really Add value. As a result I usually clear a car within 14 days.
If you look at my advice I'm trying to push a new buyer towards a car that not only is good but will keep max value and desirability as well.
As for 197 cup v R27 it's very tight and we are comparing 07/57 plate r27's with 08/58 plate cups, but were as the op has that financial budget the comparison is relevant.
Ok that basis if you went top spec on each you will see a 197 cup going for slightly more than a top spec r27, again it's close and there will bbe a few examples of each that are worth more but it's the cup that pips it mainly due to age.........
You can't really compare the value of two cars when you are looking at different ages though. A 57 plate Cup is worth less than a 57 plate R27.
I'm not debating that the 200 is any better than the 197 or not, they have been proven to be by motoring journalists. But to tell someone not to buy a 197 because they are worse than the 200 and they won't sell it when they come to it is wrong in my eyes.
I didn't make it personal Steve, I was just making a point that your opinion on what car to buy might be biased because the cars you sell. What I was actually trying to do was to offer another side to the argument and explain to the OP that this might be the reason why you suggest he gets a Cup, 200 or R27.
You were quick to dismiss a 197 purely based on it's resale value, that's why I thought you were a little unfair on it that's all. To say I am a 'typical 197 owner defending it' is a bit funny when you are on clio197.net. If anything I am not 'a typical 197 owner defending it'. I posted in a thread just the other week saying how the car was not great in certain situations. I try to stay open to things.
You say that values have plummeted for the 197 recently for older cars. It's probably most likley because they are old. Lets face it, an 06 plate Clio is never going to be worth a huge amount. And you also say they couldn't have many options. The black 197 you posted a link for has xenons, 6 cd changer and climate. And even after they've reduced it, it's still over priced. I would think it was worth no more than £7000. After all, it's 5 years old! After 3 years it should be worth just under half it's value (so say ~ £8250). So adding another 2 years to it's age isn't going to make it worth only £500 less. That's probably why no one has bought it, it's over priced.
Also, you never get back the money you paid on optional extras. A top specced Cup car is still going to have less equipment than an R27 surely?
Anyway, as always, only my opinion. Just thought I would say that the 197 is a good car to own and I think you should consider one and I don't necessarily think they will be any harder to sell than a Cup.
I'm not debating that the 200 is any better than the 197 or not, they have been proven to be by motoring journalists. But to tell someone not to buy a 197 because they are worse than the 200 and they won't sell it when they come to it is wrong in my eyes.
I didn't make it personal Steve, I was just making a point that your opinion on what car to buy might be biased because the cars you sell. What I was actually trying to do was to offer another side to the argument and explain to the OP that this might be the reason why you suggest he gets a Cup, 200 or R27.
You were quick to dismiss a 197 purely based on it's resale value, that's why I thought you were a little unfair on it that's all. To say I am a 'typical 197 owner defending it' is a bit funny when you are on clio197.net. If anything I am not 'a typical 197 owner defending it'. I posted in a thread just the other week saying how the car was not great in certain situations. I try to stay open to things.
You say that values have plummeted for the 197 recently for older cars. It's probably most likley because they are old. Lets face it, an 06 plate Clio is never going to be worth a huge amount. And you also say they couldn't have many options. The black 197 you posted a link for has xenons, 6 cd changer and climate. And even after they've reduced it, it's still over priced. I would think it was worth no more than £7000. After all, it's 5 years old! After 3 years it should be worth just under half it's value (so say ~ £8250). So adding another 2 years to it's age isn't going to make it worth only £500 less. That's probably why no one has bought it, it's over priced.
Also, you never get back the money you paid on optional extras. A top specced Cup car is still going to have less equipment than an R27 surely?
Anyway, as always, only my opinion. Just thought I would say that the 197 is a good car to own and I think you should consider one and I don't necessarily think they will be any harder to sell than a Cup.
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Hello, I bought a FF 197 3 days ago. Prior to this I had a Flyin Miata FM2 Mx5 (234BHP, 200 torks)
I needed something fun, fast, chuckable, trackday worthy, but with a boot. My short experience so far is that the 197 has a fantastic chassis, plenty of grip, and lots of smiles per gallon. The gearbox is very close ratio, presumably to make up for fairly low amount of torque, and once at motorway cruising speed in 6th gear, I find myself searching for a 7th gear (rather buzzy!) However, the close ratio means you always seem to be in the power band whilst going through the gears and revving it becomes very addictive as the engine feels silky smooth.
Overall, I am very happy so far. In a straight line my mx5 was a lot faster and more brutal, and quite probably quicker round track, but on real (bumpy) b-roads the 197 feels much quicker A to B.
Minty
I needed something fun, fast, chuckable, trackday worthy, but with a boot. My short experience so far is that the 197 has a fantastic chassis, plenty of grip, and lots of smiles per gallon. The gearbox is very close ratio, presumably to make up for fairly low amount of torque, and once at motorway cruising speed in 6th gear, I find myself searching for a 7th gear (rather buzzy!) However, the close ratio means you always seem to be in the power band whilst going through the gears and revving it becomes very addictive as the engine feels silky smooth.
Overall, I am very happy so far. In a straight line my mx5 was a lot faster and more brutal, and quite probably quicker round track, but on real (bumpy) b-roads the 197 feels much quicker A to B.
Minty
When youve lost it and hit a tree. Sucks to be unconscious in a burning wreck. Might even put a dampner on your day.
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GrumpyTwig
"the troll hunter" with added boost!
Not great..... when stuck in city traffic, motorway cruising above 70 (no one does that anyway right?), for your passengers in the rear seats ( supposedly it hurts your kidneys :lol: ), on fuel/tax/insurance.
Build quality is a mixture of good to "french", there are plenty of things that can only be explained by "it's a Renault" like the voids in the rear arches that collect stones/dirt and the fact you need to be either have small woman hands or disassemble the front end of the car to change the headlight bulbs.
But you don't buy one for any of the points above, you buy one because there isn't a car in it's class that can match it for smile per miles on roads / track.
The only thing to get close so far has been the new Corsa Nurburgring but thats a fair few pennys more!
In conclusion, buy one and enjoy.
Obviously the engines use the same principle, high revving n/a. I'd imagine the ride to be better due to the Clio being a newer design. If you enjoyed that car I'd say you would like a 197. I think there are s few members on here that have gone from Teggy to 197s.
GrumpyTwig
"the troll hunter" with added boost!
Massively so, better brakes equivelant power and a better chassis.
Standard EP3s don't take corners as well at all, and the FN2 is no comparison ( IMO not a proper type R).
If you look at the reviews the Clio has had from various media people, they all say hpw good and funthe car is. Drive one and see. Also, a lot of these driving experience days companies use Clios as training cars. They're used as rally cars and single series racers. So they should be up to the job. I think they handle great and can take some serious corners.
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