LY200 - too loud or blow up again, taking bets!

[TB Rich]

Perhaps my expectations might not have been realistic, though I was basing it on seeing enough cars here running ~215bhp with 402's. So bigger cams, r3 mani and high comps - in my mind has to be worth at least 10bhp?? Doesnt it?? I really should be knocking on close to 230bhp.

I know you shouldn't compare cars and rollers but it's hard not too.

I would like a genuine 220bhp as a minimum, any less than that and I'll will 100% sell it. 225bhp is my tru target. I'm prepaired to allow some time for bedding in, sorting out a V6 box and up to another £500 on cam timing/mapping changes at say RS Tuning - but after that I'll wash my hands with it.

 

[Raptor6767]

Depends on the rollers and the operator (if he misses the rpm calibration only by 100rpm whole dyno curve is different - first hand experience) too.

On one rollers I got 217bhp, and on the other I got 210bhp.

IMHO, your Clio should make 220-225bhp with that setup.
Just, switch to V6 airbox and get back to us with the impressions.


Oh, BTW - I lost 7bhp with my Miltek exhaust (had precat and 200cell sport cat then) WITHOUT the remap. Maybe the exhaust manifold is the problem...just thinking out loud.

And another thing - IF you manage to squeeze a bit more bhp when the fuel trims fine tune after a while - don't expect more than 2-3-bhp. At best.

 

[TB Rich]

Yeah exactly, 225 +/- a few bhp.

I cold try swapping the sports cat for a decat actually, might help a bit.

I mean the curves look ok really, and to be fair the figures for mine (172.8bhp) and the stock 200 (157bhp) are low - so it could just be the rollers.

This is Vs a standard ish 200 done a couple of days before.

 

[Raptor6767]

First - get it on the rollers where you had the car dynoed before and than compare the results.

 

[TB Rich]

Just thought I'd take the values from my first RR at Surrey (160@wheels, 193@fly) Vs. the new figs from E.D and stick them in Excel... OMG, thats nearly 35ft lb more in the midrange!

Perhaps I was a bit hasty to knock it? Still feel the top end is lacking, seems to die a bit at 5500 which is why the peek fig's arn't grabbing. Could possibly be a restriction or timing issue. If it's a restriction it'll be either throttle body or manifold/sports cat???

Need to put at least 500 miles on it before now and Weds though.

 

[Yiannis197]

Rich, first of all good stuff the beast is up and running.

The hardware is really promising, maybe what the car is missing is a proper mapper. A trip to RST will show some results and answer some questions. The car in theory should be quite strong with power on high end of the range due to the cams. Do not knock the itg yet, I really don't think it cost you any power, people in here are running itgs and they never reported any losses. If the car still doesn't produce what it should be producing then have a word with Paul about the exhaust. Unfortunately no one in here is running this system so it is hard to judge...

 

[TB Rich]

Hi Yiannis, I'll get some miles on it for Wed's when it's back to SRR - then take it from there. But yeah unfortunately the ITG cost big time! These are wheels fig's of the ITG vs the open cone......

 

[Foxspeed]

to say its got "wilder" cams in its not revving that high 7150....

 

[Pav]

still cant believe that the itg kit would loose u some power....never heard of it before...the v6 airbox might be the way to go then..as Yiannis said,would worth to pay RS tuning a visit...
we need some vids of ur car..:thumbup:

 

[Yiannis197]

oh damn, that doesn't look good does it? V6 it is then, I believe peter in here is selling his [MENTION=3203]Rogue[/MENTION] or a second hand Ktec?

 

[Yiannis197]

to say its got "wilder" cams in its not revving that high 7150....

Indeed. Wilder cams would produce power higher up the range? How about allowing the car to rev up to 7800 or 8k since your engine is now forged?

 

[TB Rich]

No point going much above 7100 as you can see it's flatened already.

I asked this though, it's very low IMO for 403's. The way I see it is 402's peek higher than 7100 dont they? so you can't really tell me 403's peeking at 7100 is right? I was expecting mine to rev to close on 8k hence Arrow rods, forged valves, valve springs etc !!! Which is why I'm thinking cam timing?

Apart from the hydraulic lifters the rest of the kit is good for 8.5k.

My old ITB engine had incorrect cam timing and was down nearly 20bhp first time mapped, I think something similar here perhaps? I'm told it's currently on 403 std timing, but Cat ****ed me over on that old enigne because that ran std timing first time....!

 

[Yiannis197]

No point going much above 7100 as you can see it's flatened already.

I asked this though, it's very low IMO for 403's. I was told well there mild cams that didnt even need springs. hmmmm??? the way I see it is 402's peek higher than 7100, so you can't really tell me 403's are peeking at 7100! I was expecting mine to rev to close on 8k hence Arrow rods, forged valves, valve springs etc !!! Which is why I'm thinking cam timing?

Apart from the hydraulic lifters the rest of the kit is good for 8.5k.

My old ITB engine had incorrect cam timing and was down nearly 20bhp first time mapped, I smell something similar here perhaps? I'm told it's currently on 403 std timing, but Cat ****ed me over on that old enigne because that ran std timing first time....!

From your above graph it doesn't seem to be going flat after 7200rpm, it seems to be going up unless my eyes are fooling me? Especially when comparing it to the pre upgrade run where it flattens at around 6900 rpm.

This is my graph on 402s

Untitled by YiannisR27, on Flickr

As you can see it flattens at 7k and it goes down at 7.5 rpm...

Go check the timing mate, Paul is the man to see. The outcome will be interesting.

 

[TB Rich]

This was the final run, it may well hold on to it for another few hundred rpm - but it def aint gaining.

Picking the car up tomorrow morning, even though the midrange looks insane it'll be a disapointing drive I think. I'm a peek horsepower kind of guy, if I wanted midrange I would have meg'd it ffs !!!

Going to put a few hundred miles on it on the way home. As I say I want a minimum of 500 on it by Wed's morning at Surrey - until then its alot of speculation between different rollers, but the evidence so far looks like timing or a restriction somewhere.

 

[Foxspeed]

it should pick up a bit better once run in and I would have thought it should have held on better at the top end and like the standard 197/200 headbutt the limiter!!

be interesting to see if a timing tweek gets some more ponies

 

[MikeLYR27]

I swear in another thread, think maybe Ben_r1 he found that retarding or advancing the cam made it better? Can't remember fully but worth you looking. Don't expect huge gains from this, these engines are *******s!! Either way it will be better than it was. My advice is get it up to Paul straight away. Even if it doesn't make the headline figured your after, I guarantee he will make it drive far better and feel quicker.

 

[TB Rich]

Picked it up and drove home 180 miles, varying revs and load to assist with break-in. Feels a bit stronger now it's got 3 times the mileage on. It's still fresh as anything so back out tomorrow
Turns out the 83mm pistons weren't fitted, running standard bore size of 82.7mm. Actually happy about that as I can now get into the sub 2000cc Road class at Gurston Down.

To be fair it drives smooth as anything, ticks over like there aren't cams in fact, which I find very surprising as I was expecting 403's to be lumpy really?

Currently has the ITG fitted which means it's not masses quicker than it was before I started it all, but that midrange is already feeling pretty monster Nice to know there's another guaranteed 8bhp @ wheels (~10@fly) when I can sort a filter. As mentioned the ITG strangled the crap out the engine on their rollers vs his open cone. I wonder whether the V6 airbox might even improve further - but that's speculation on my part.

On that note a chap off here is pricing me up a V6 box. I'm also going to fabricate a decat - plan being I will have a few filter setups and both a sports cat and decat - then be able to find the best combo of parts/timing/mapping - and I think this engine will be where it needs to then on 403's, i.e about 225bhp.

 

[TB Rich]

So it made 162@wheels / 195@fly, with the ITG at Surrey Rolling Road this morning.

So it matches ED's figures, meaning with the correct air filter setup it would be about ~170@wheels / 205@fly.

Currently though I've gained 2bhp....worked out inc labour and parts, I've spent £7000 to get there. ha, ****ing ha!!

Will update as things progress, the hardware as stated should be producing 185-190@wheels / 220-225bhp@fly.

 

[Rogue]

Gutting! Do you think theres an underlying issue somewhere?

 

[Gez]

There must be...

I know most of your spec is reliability over Hp, but still...

The engine will be tight still, but as you've said: timing, filter ect need looking at