LY200 - too loud or blow up again, taking bets!
- Thread starter TB Rich
- Start date
Raptor6767
Gold Member
Here's another one, although a bit more pricey:
http://shop-gfk.weiss-motorsport.com/product_info.php?products_id=820
I wonder how to fit it in 200 as the intake area (grille) in the front bumper is small compared to 197. For this reason most of the inlet part of the r3 box that sits before the front panel would be covered by the bumper preventing RAM effect to appear (or am i wrong?)
TB Rich
Paid Member
The 200 has only a small opening, but, RAM doesn't work until you're travelling above about 100mph anyway. At all other times because these are an NA car the airbox is otherwise at atmospheric pressure.
This is the reason why that stuff Raptor was saying about the V6 box having more volume than the ITG, means absolutely nothing.
Pre throttle body you just want the least restrictive path you can get, any +VE volumetric gains through resonance tuning is really biased to the inlet manifold not the airbox. And certianly not once you've change from the factory OE box which is the only one which has half a chance of being tuned to operate with the inlet design and timing of the engine etc. - But seeing as it's the same airbox as the 1.4's there is no way in hell it's been tuned for the 200 engine!
This is the reason why that stuff Raptor was saying about the V6 box having more volume than the ITG, means absolutely nothing.
Pre throttle body you just want the least restrictive path you can get, any +VE volumetric gains through resonance tuning is really biased to the inlet manifold not the airbox. And certianly not once you've change from the factory OE box which is the only one which has half a chance of being tuned to operate with the inlet design and timing of the engine etc. - But seeing as it's the same airbox as the 1.4's there is no way in hell it's been tuned for the 200 engine!
The battery can fit behind the airbox...
It's an Odessey PC680.
You will still have to move the fuse boxes and the expansion tank.
Possibly not. There's a lot of room back there but you'll be fine with the ITG. Less faffing about too.
TB Rich
Paid Member
haha, less faffing about! that a relative term vs a ktec maybe 
As certainly taken a lot of faffing (and cost!) to get this installed in a tidy way, still need the new carbon battery cover fab'ing up as well!
If I'm not happy with the results I could try a Cup Racer pipe and ITG, as I certainly don't have any beef with the ITG box itself. I notice however the Madeno kit still retains the OE inlet hose like I have so that's positive. Anyway hopefully only a week or so to go, but I still want to get back to Surrey RR after to compare against my previous baseline before I'll be happy to then move on to either suspension or gearbox next.
As certainly taken a lot of faffing (and cost!) to get this installed in a tidy way, still need the new carbon battery cover fab'ing up as well!If I'm not happy with the results I could try a Cup Racer pipe and ITG, as I certainly don't have any beef with the ITG box itself. I notice however the Madeno kit still retains the OE inlet hose like I have so that's positive. Anyway hopefully only a week or so to go, but I still want to get back to Surrey RR after to compare against my previous baseline before I'll be happy to then move on to either suspension or gearbox next.
TB Rich
Paid Member
The pistons came out last week and were fine, rings and ring langs, bores etc all fine! Still the block currently now has a set of 83mm forged pistons in there anyway!
Only had a brief email exchange but the inlet valve seats apparently needed quite a bit of work, looked like some debris had possibly passed through and this was the only sign on the engine for anything which could indicate lost compression. Still forged valves now lapped in so all good!
@Raptor6767 The exhaust ports were a very good match for the R3 manifold, the R3 manifold ports are about 1mm bigger all around - which is about ideal because of the anti-reversal effect of stopping exhaust gasses entering the head and diluting the charge. The 200 head however apparently has bigger CNC'd exhaust ports over a 197 head - so you might on yours get some benift to opening out your exhaust ports. I did ask them to measure the ports on the manifold but I haven't spoken to them this week other than a quick email. Next time I do I will ask if he took them for you.
Only had a brief email exchange but the inlet valve seats apparently needed quite a bit of work, looked like some debris had possibly passed through and this was the only sign on the engine for anything which could indicate lost compression. Still forged valves now lapped in so all good!
@Raptor6767 The exhaust ports were a very good match for the R3 manifold, the R3 manifold ports are about 1mm bigger all around - which is about ideal because of the anti-reversal effect of stopping exhaust gasses entering the head and diluting the charge. The 200 head however apparently has bigger CNC'd exhaust ports over a 197 head - so you might on yours get some benift to opening out your exhaust ports. I did ask them to measure the ports on the manifold but I haven't spoken to them this week other than a quick email. Next time I do I will ask if he took them for you.
Raptor6767
Gold Member
Stephenvenning
Gold Member
Great to see this coming together. Are they not honing the bores and crank bearings? With going forged you want the block to be spot on.
TB Rich
Paid Member
TB Rich
Paid Member
Talking of bore sizes - I've decided I might do just a few single Roadgoing hillclimb/sprinting events in it for a variation with track days - Gurston Down just up the road from me, has 2 Roadgoing classes, up to 2000cc and over 2000cc, means I'm into the next class if I go there Need to clarify what mods are allowed but looking at the MSA Yearbook I think everything I've done is fine anyway.
Interesting that if I fit coilovers on the rear it would not be allowed, so whereas I was thinking AST's perhaps - might look at Madeno Bilsteins instead now. By going coilovers on the rear it definitely puts you into the Modified category so then you're up against stripped out dedicated cars.
Meh, gotta get rolling with the new engine first!
Need to clarify what mods are allowed but looking at the MSA Yearbook I think everything I've done is fine anyway.Interesting that if I fit coilovers on the rear it would not be allowed, so whereas I was thinking AST's perhaps - might look at Madeno Bilsteins instead now. By going coilovers on the rear it definitely puts you into the Modified category so then you're up against stripped out dedicated cars.
Meh, gotta get rolling with the new engine first!
Yiannis197
Paid Member
Good info here. So is the 200 head different than the 197 one? Until now I was under the impression that they are completely identical...
Also, are the exhaust ports of the head bigger than the manifold ports? If that's the case then would I be right to consider K-tec's manifold as a 'good' upgrade - in case the OEM fails of course - as it has wider ports? Cheers
TB Rich
Paid Member
Yeah 200 head is different to the 197 only on the exhaust side.
The exhaust ports are bigger on the R3 Manifold by about 1mm Vs. the 200 head ports, and this is how you want it for the anti-reversal effect.
I can't comment around the ktec manifold or 197 head as I don't have measurements for any of it I'm afraid. I can measure the standard manifold if needed though as that's in my shed which I probably will sell once the car back etc.
Apparently the inlet ports on the head were alot larger than the ports on the lower intake manifold, so some work to open the lower inlet ports out a bit was the only work that needed doing.
The exhaust ports are bigger on the R3 Manifold by about 1mm Vs. the 200 head ports, and this is how you want it for the anti-reversal effect.
I can't comment around the ktec manifold or 197 head as I don't have measurements for any of it I'm afraid. I can measure the standard manifold if needed though as that's in my shed which I probably will sell once the car back etc.
Apparently the inlet ports on the head were alot larger than the ports on the lower intake manifold, so some work to open the lower inlet ports out a bit was the only work that needed doing.
Yiannis197
Paid Member
Thanks Rich, I've read on their website that the ports of the OEM manifold have 24mm aperture and their product 33mm, it'd be interesting to know the aperture of the exhaust ports of the 197 head.
Sorry for the OT by the way.
Sorry for the OT by the way.
TB Rich
Paid Member
Well the car I'm told is mapped and "finished".
Peek figure gains: making about 16bhp at the wheels more than a 200 with only an exhaust (same dyno same week).
Mid range gains: making about 25ft/lb at the wheels vs same car.
The actual figures for both cars were really low, so I'm going to have to head back to Surrey Rolling Road to verify it (booked in Wed's morning).
It is worth noting though that the engine has 50 miles under it's belt, I'm sure it'll need 1-2k miles on it to bed in and loosen up properly.
Also, [MENTION=58]Raptor6767[/MENTION] you were right mate.. the ITG was ****!!!!! It cost me 8bhp at the wheels vs a temporary open cone on there right now. Will start to track down a V6 airbox ASAP!
I'm hoping that with a V6 airbox, and bedding in time, I can still get it to make good power. But inital impressions are I shoud have just gone to Ktec and bought a cam package for 1/5 cost and more power!!!!!!
Could even need a trip to RS Tuning once bedded in and start swining the cam timing etc. I can't believe that 403's, high comp pistons and an R3 manifold, in terms of peek power is worse than every car on here with 402's??
Peek figure gains: making about 16bhp at the wheels more than a 200 with only an exhaust (same dyno same week).
Mid range gains: making about 25ft/lb at the wheels vs same car.
The actual figures for both cars were really low, so I'm going to have to head back to Surrey Rolling Road to verify it (booked in Wed's morning).
It is worth noting though that the engine has 50 miles under it's belt, I'm sure it'll need 1-2k miles on it to bed in and loosen up properly.
Also, [MENTION=58]Raptor6767[/MENTION] you were right mate.. the ITG was ****!!!!! It cost me 8bhp at the wheels vs a temporary open cone on there right now. Will start to track down a V6 airbox ASAP!
I'm hoping that with a V6 airbox, and bedding in time, I can still get it to make good power. But inital impressions are I shoud have just gone to Ktec and bought a cam package for 1/5 cost and more power!!!!!!
Could even need a trip to RS Tuning once bedded in and start swining the cam timing etc. I can't believe that 403's, high comp pistons and an R3 manifold, in terms of peek power is worse than every car on here with 402's??
Raptor6767
Gold Member
Don't compare different rollers and different cars.
I use the rollers for comparing the difference before and after the mods.
However, I found the ROAD to be the best indication of the progress.
You just need to minimise the factors that can influence the timing (same road, driver, gas quality/quantity,...).
Oh, and one thing more - I'm reading your post via SGS5 so didn't realise at first - if you got 16 WHEEL horse power more - that's a BIG difference! That could easily be up to 25bhp.
I use the rollers for comparing the difference before and after the mods.
However, I found the ROAD to be the best indication of the progress.
You just need to minimise the factors that can influence the timing (same road, driver, gas quality/quantity,...).
Oh, and one thing more - I'm reading your post via SGS5 so didn't realise at first - if you got 16 WHEEL horse power more - that's a BIG difference! That could easily be up to 25bhp.
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