tombate911
Paid Member
Albi Blue 200 >> BMW E46 Track Car
- Thread starter tombate911
- Start date
Good buy there Tom. I've run gripper diffs in the past and they are very good. Do you know what the gearbox was used for? As the clutches are usually adjusted to suit the intended use. They're a great serviceable part and I'd recommend using Millers Nanotech oil as it's suited to plate type diffs.
Pav
Moderator
hope you like it Tom..should be a pretty special machine now..when are you fitting it??
tombate911
Paid Member
Thanks. I think the combination of all the parts makes it a really good box, I know if it was going it my self I wouldn't have gone to the extent of mixing the gear sets around the reducing the final drive due to the additional costs involved.
I've bought Motul 300 LS which is a LSD oil which is designed for boxes where the LSD is integrated inside the gearbox and designed to work with sycnros and not react with any syncro material etc. It was also the gear oil the company who built the box recommended.
The Diff was originally supplied by Jade Developments as a track/Fastroad setting on the invoice which will be interesting to measure the break away torque and see how that compares with other peoples set ups.
I've resisting the urge to fit it straight away. I've got some poly bushes coming for my van which i'll probably crack on with Friday night and then do the gearbox Saturday. Really want to get it fitted and tested. Got Cadwell park at the end of July so want to do a few miles on the road with it before then.
You'll definitely notice the grip levels improve significantly. If you hear it clicking when dry steering don't worry about that, it's the nature of the diff. Many people hear that and panic! Should feel really good in the 197. The Quaife diff I fitted is great and the grip levels have been vastly improved but it doesn't feel like it has one fitted at times, in terms of the feel I mean. I'm used to having plate diffs that want to rip your arms off when you straighten up so this feels a little lame! lol
The diff will be the best mod you've done by far.
The diff will be the best mod you've done by far.
TB Rich
Paid Member
Data set one at the bottom shows the speeds of the Clio 200 gearbox
Data Set two shows the speeds for the 197 gear set with shorter Final Drive
You might have plotted the ratios wrong, 200 boxes are an 031 not 003 as titled. 197's are either 003 (early, short 5/6) or an 024 (late, long 5/6).
Assuming this is the box I saw for sale on FB then it was advertised with same ratios and FD I run (003+4.73), so Vs a 200 box it should be like below. New 6th is all but identical to old 5th! So drive around not using 6th if you want to pretend it's already fitted
tombate911
Paid Member
You might have plotted the ratios wrong, 200 boxes are an 031 not 003 as titled. 197's are either 003 (early, short 5/6) or an 024 (late, long 5/6).
Assuming this is the box I saw for sale on FB then it was advertised with same ratios and FD I run (003+4.73), so Vs a 200 box it should be like below. New 6th is all but identical to old 5th! So drive around not using 6th if you want to pretend it's already fitted
Yes you're right, in the midst of all the calculations and looking at different FD's available I took the wrong gearbox code from the TL4 Manual.
Updated the excel spreadsheet and it looks much more like you have on yours. How do you find your gearbox with that set up? Much noticeable difference with the shorter FD other than the obvious changes in Speed vs RPM? How you finding the gripper?
TB Rich
Paid Member
Yeah that looks like it.
Mine has a Quaife not Gripper, at the time it was a daily although now I'd probably still go Quaife/Wavetrac as being a lazy sod I like to fit and forget! No doubt the Gripper is the 'best' though wrt performance.
But yeah overall the box is spot on, the 003 ratios are a nicer spacing and then the FD pulls it all down and makes it frantic If you don't swap the 031 to 003 ratios when doing an FD, then imo gears 1/2 will end up too short. It's all still usable on the road too, although slightly painful on the motorway, iirc 4100rpm @ 70mph.
How much faster I don't know without having timed it, but it's way way more fun! I've only tracked it once on those ratios and they were great too. - You will be pleased with it I'm sure
Mine has a Quaife not Gripper, at the time it was a daily although now I'd probably still go Quaife/Wavetrac as being a lazy sod I like to fit and forget! No doubt the Gripper is the 'best' though wrt performance.
But yeah overall the box is spot on, the 003 ratios are a nicer spacing and then the FD pulls it all down and makes it frantic
If you don't swap the 031 to 003 ratios when doing an FD, then imo gears 1/2 will end up too short. It's all still usable on the road too, although slightly painful on the motorway, iirc 4100rpm @ 70mph.How much faster I don't know without having timed it, but it's way way more fun! I've only tracked it once on those ratios and they were great too. - You will be pleased with it I'm sure
Great update Tom, I would really like a gripper on mine as I can hear on certain corners the car struggling to put the power down. I imagine combining this with a short shift/CAE would be a truly winning combination. I look forward to hearing your review once all fitted up and tested.
tombate911
Paid Member
Here's the update then...
Got home from work about 3:30 on Friday with the intention of doing some polybushes on the van and leaving the big gearbox job till Saturday. Was still waiting for the post man so thought I might as well start the gearbox while it was 4pm...
Wouldn't normally do these big jobs at home on my drive, would normally take them down to a friends unit with more space, lights and covered but while the weather was forecast really good, off with the bumper, subframe and the front subframe.
With the front end all stripped and the gearbox loosened off out comes the engine crane while I was doing this all on might own, might as well make it easier for my self.
Old one out, prepped the new one ready to go in.
Fitted the new gearbox into location, started to rebuilt the car again, while the front end was off the car I spent a little bit of time sorting out the alternator which kept rattling loose at the last track day, attached it with some Nordlock washers on both ends of the tensioner I'm using for the AC delete.
Once the car was back together and on it's while, bled the clutch through, filled it with brand new LSD gearbox oil and called it a night.
All done by 10pm including packing away. Quickest gearbox swap I've done considering I was doing it on my own.
Gave everything a once over this morning with a fresh sets of eyes. Turned it over and let it run for a while to get the oil moving around the box, checked for leaks and then decided while it was still covered in rubber from the last track day I would give it a wash.
Also found time for a little test drive, only a few miles down the road and back so far.
Have to say the gearbox feels fantastic! Plated diff is so much quieter and refined than I thought it was going to be. Can hardly hear anything when doing tight turns out of junctions.
But on the road you can certainly feel a difference in corners, I did a quick U-turn on a round about to see what it was like but the real test will be at Cadwell on the 27th July. I did notice how much of a difference the shorter FD makes though, keeps the engine reving nicely between gear changes. 4k at 70mph now.
Really happy!
Got home from work about 3:30 on Friday with the intention of doing some polybushes on the van and leaving the big gearbox job till Saturday. Was still waiting for the post man so thought I might as well start the gearbox while it was 4pm...
Wouldn't normally do these big jobs at home on my drive, would normally take them down to a friends unit with more space, lights and covered but while the weather was forecast really good, off with the bumper, subframe and the front subframe.
With the front end all stripped and the gearbox loosened off out comes the engine crane while I was doing this all on might own, might as well make it easier for my self.
Old one out, prepped the new one ready to go in.
Fitted the new gearbox into location, started to rebuilt the car again, while the front end was off the car I spent a little bit of time sorting out the alternator which kept rattling loose at the last track day, attached it with some Nordlock washers on both ends of the tensioner I'm using for the AC delete.
Once the car was back together and on it's while, bled the clutch through, filled it with brand new LSD gearbox oil and called it a night.
All done by 10pm including packing away. Quickest gearbox swap I've done considering I was doing it on my own.
Gave everything a once over this morning with a fresh sets of eyes. Turned it over and let it run for a while to get the oil moving around the box, checked for leaks and then decided while it was still covered in rubber from the last track day I would give it a wash.
Also found time for a little test drive, only a few miles down the road and back so far.
Have to say the gearbox feels fantastic! Plated diff is so much quieter and refined than I thought it was going to be. Can hardly hear anything when doing tight turns out of junctions.
But on the road you can certainly feel a difference in corners, I did a quick U-turn on a round about to see what it was like but the real test will be at Cadwell on the 27th July. I did notice how much of a difference the shorter FD makes though, keeps the engine reving nicely between gear changes. 4k at 70mph now.
Really happy!
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Yiannis197
Paid Member
gripper I hear! Sweet
For me, gripper was the best think I've done to my car, my only regret is that I didn't do it 6 years ago...
For me, gripper was the best think I've done to my car, my only regret is that I didn't do it 6 years ago...
Swapping your own gearbox out!!
If you're ever down south and fancy earning yourself a few quid...
Love the updates Tom. Hope you enjoy the new gripper
If you're ever down south and fancy earning yourself a few quid...
Love the updates Tom. Hope you enjoy the new gripper
Huge leap forward for a tracked car Tom !
Bet that turns out to be an awesome purchase and you wonder why on Earth it wasn't one of your first mods.......
Look forward to hearing the nitty-gritty once you've had a chance to test in earnest at Cadwell
Bet that turns out to be an awesome purchase and you wonder why on Earth it wasn't one of your first mods.......
Look forward to hearing the nitty-gritty once you've had a chance to test in earnest at Cadwell
tombate911
Paid Member
@PavHuge leap forward for a tracked car Tom !
Bet that turns out to be an awesome purchase and you wonder why on Earth it wasn't one of your first mods.......
Look forward to hearing the nitty-gritty once you've had a chance to test in earnest at Cadwell
Thanks for the comments everyone, hopefully the gripper should really change up how the car drives on the track. I've not posted on here for a month, I've hardly touched the car really except putting few road miles on it in preparation for next Thursday at Cadwell. I have however got a little more adventurous with some read paint...
Going to go and pick the trailer up on Sunday and then I can start prepping the car before the track day. Only a couple of little things like cleaning, levels, check the brakes and bleed the clutch before loading it up.
Swapping your own gearbox out!!
If you're ever down south and fancy earning yourself a few quid...
Love the updates Tom. Hope you enjoy the new gripper
No worries, i don't really get down that way but if you're every stuck let me know. Quite a simple job really when you know what you're doing. only took me about 5/6 hours in total. But between my car and friends I think I've done 5 gearbox swaps now.
tombate911
Paid Member
Cadwell Park 27th July 2017
Been a little while since I've posted on here or updated this thread since fitting the diff. Since then the only thing I have done is repainted the spoiler end caps, you can see for your self in the photos.
Well I've finished work for 6 weeks so perfect time to get a track day in mid week which I normally can't do.
Been wanting to do Cadwell Park since I got the car so it was a perfect opportunity to get it done and make the most of the summer weather!
I set about loading up the van and trailer Wednesday morning and set off on the 3 hoursdrive to Cadwell Park Wednesday afternoon. I drove straight to the circuit and found a good location to set up camp for the next two days. Got my self nice and close to the pit lane entry point as close as you can be to the circuit.
I spent the night camping at the circuit in my van so set the alarm for 7am, I had taken the car off the trailer the night before so was pretty much ready to go in the morning, just a quick change of tyres to the drys and ready to go.
Sighting laps out of the way and it's very clear to see what a good circuit it was going to be with a massive amount of elevation change which you really cannot appreciate on the video footage from the track until you've driven it.
Car was performing absolutely amazingly. Gripper diff making a massive difference getting the power down in the corners and helping the car hold the racing line though the corners. Also the FD on the gearbox really helped the Clio out on the straights able to really use 5th gear now and continue to accelerate. Shorter gears allowed me to always be in the correct rev range especially between 4th/5th
As the day went on and I got a little more familiar with the track I started to push on with the pace chasing down some much more high powered cars, very fast on the straights but very easily reigned in on a track like Cadwell.
Made some tweaks to the car throughout the day. Actually softened the front dampers a couple of clicks, Cadwell is a very bumpy track!
Removed the 20mm rear spacers from the back axles to see what change it had on the feel of the car, before doing it I would have said there would be no difference... However much better turn in and less understeer through some of the slower sharper corners such as the hairpin at the end of Hall Bends.
Only one mechanical issue on the day which was the alternator which decided it would stop charging the car after about 15 minutes in on the last two sessions and would only kick out about 12.5v. Let the car cool down and it was back to 14v for about 15 minutes on track. Going to swap it out for a spare I've got and have it rebuilt and tested.
Post track day fixing and care is underway now, first job as soon as the car came off the trailer was to get it on 4 axles stands for a few weeks so I can get some jobs sorted on it before it goes out on track again, here's a little list of things to come
Powder coat 2x sets of wheels
Shim the rear beam parallel
New gearbox oil
New gearbox cables
Temperature sensor and wiring fitted to the gearbox to research oil temperatures
Solid engine mounts being made
Check and give the brakes F/R a once over
Alternator swap
Some other smaller TLC and Maintenance on the the go.
Been a little while since I've posted on here or updated this thread since fitting the diff. Since then the only thing I have done is repainted the spoiler end caps, you can see for your self in the photos.
Well I've finished work for 6 weeks so perfect time to get a track day in mid week which I normally can't do.
Been wanting to do Cadwell Park since I got the car so it was a perfect opportunity to get it done and make the most of the summer weather!
I set about loading up the van and trailer Wednesday morning and set off on the 3 hoursdrive to Cadwell Park Wednesday afternoon. I drove straight to the circuit and found a good location to set up camp for the next two days. Got my self nice and close to the pit lane entry point as close as you can be to the circuit.
I spent the night camping at the circuit in my van so set the alarm for 7am, I had taken the car off the trailer the night before so was pretty much ready to go in the morning, just a quick change of tyres to the drys and ready to go.
Sighting laps out of the way and it's very clear to see what a good circuit it was going to be with a massive amount of elevation change which you really cannot appreciate on the video footage from the track until you've driven it.
Car was performing absolutely amazingly. Gripper diff making a massive difference getting the power down in the corners and helping the car hold the racing line though the corners. Also the FD on the gearbox really helped the Clio out on the straights able to really use 5th gear now and continue to accelerate. Shorter gears allowed me to always be in the correct rev range especially between 4th/5th
As the day went on and I got a little more familiar with the track I started to push on with the pace chasing down some much more high powered cars, very fast on the straights but very easily reigned in on a track like Cadwell.
Made some tweaks to the car throughout the day. Actually softened the front dampers a couple of clicks, Cadwell is a very bumpy track!
Removed the 20mm rear spacers from the back axles to see what change it had on the feel of the car, before doing it I would have said there would be no difference... However much better turn in and less understeer through some of the slower sharper corners such as the hairpin at the end of Hall Bends.
Only one mechanical issue on the day which was the alternator which decided it would stop charging the car after about 15 minutes in on the last two sessions and would only kick out about 12.5v. Let the car cool down and it was back to 14v for about 15 minutes on track. Going to swap it out for a spare I've got and have it rebuilt and tested.
Post track day fixing and care is underway now, first job as soon as the car came off the trailer was to get it on 4 axles stands for a few weeks so I can get some jobs sorted on it before it goes out on track again, here's a little list of things to come
Powder coat 2x sets of wheels
Shim the rear beam parallel
New gearbox oil
New gearbox cables
Temperature sensor and wiring fitted to the gearbox to research oil temperatures
Solid engine mounts being made
Check and give the brakes F/R a once over
Alternator swap
Some other smaller TLC and Maintenance on the the go.
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Glad to hear all is running well Tom and the new box / gripper paid dividends. Unsurprising really !
The over the mountain shot is awesome.
I'm betting you have a new screensaver. I would.........
Enjoy your 6 weeks tinkering
The over the mountain shot is awesome.
I'm betting you have a new screensaver. I would.........
Enjoy your 6 weeks tinkering
Pav
Moderator
great news Tom..glad you are over the moon with your car..she looks amazing in the pictures..
Last edited:
tombate911
Paid Member
Videos will follow soon. Not had chance to look at the footage yet, had the front camera on all the time with the rear on here and there too.
If the following link will work here's a snippet of some of the action...
https://instagram.com/p/BXM9Xs2AELu/
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