N/a track car Vs 225 conversion

[suj]

Stay N/A. Get a diff and lightweight flywheel and good suspension.

My N/A 200 lapped Bedford (On Clio197.nets How Fast event in 2013) seconds faster than the 2 Meg'd 197s and 1 supercharged 197. On that day also, my N/A 200 was faster than a TTRS.

7 years ago, it would be interesting to see how those times held up over the years with innovation / availability in bits for the 197/200 (but I guess this would also help the Meg / FI boys too in their engines and power management).

 

[Beany]

Also depends on how fast / experienced the other two drivers were..

Early megclios Could have aload of power and not the chassis to handle it, a standard 225 in a standard mk3 Clio chassis I’d expect the track car to best it round a circuit

Take everything with a pinch of salt

 

[suj]

Oh totally well said, i've beaten GT3 round the Ring, so I am currently awaiting for Porsche to give me my VLN license....

I go back to enjoyment, due to internet it has a great breadth of knowledge, but then it makes people think they HAVE to do certain mods, because everyone else has without knowing why (so many threads i've read in here, they just throwing money without even driving the car properly to work out what they actually need).
Then comes laptimes, competing against strangers on the net, instead of using it to gauge your own improvement and enjoyment.

 

[Beany]

Oh totally well said, i've beaten GT3 round the Ring, so I am currently awaiting for Porsche to give me my VLN license....

I go back to enjoyment, due to internet it has a great breadth of knowledge, but then it makes people think they HAVE to do certain mods, because everyone else has without knowing why (so many threads i've read in here, they just throwing money without even driving the car properly to work out what they actually need).
Then comes laptimes, competing against strangers on the net, instead of using it to gauge your own improvement and enjoyment.

Exactly I’ve beaten more expensive and powerful machines round a circuit.. but there’s plenty of variables as to why.

 

[suj]

Exactly I’ve beaten more expensive and powerful machines round a circuit.. but there’s plenty of variables as to why.

See you in VLN dude....

 

[Big Ben]

It’s not all about lap times....just beating your mates!

 

[Beany]

It’s not all about lap times....just beating your mates!

Beating you or crash trying

 

[John Gordon]

I have a track spec 200 and @Big Ben has a club sport 197 megclio running 316ish bhp

We both attended Cadwell Park last week in mixed forecast setting, both run the same coilover and tyre set up albeit I’m running more camber.

From my biased view over the course of a lap there wasn’t much in it maybe 1 or 2 secs to the megclio, Bens running better brakes but I’m a lot lighter. Running a diff would make a big difference and something I’ve yet to get round to doing

On the straights yes the megclio pulls away but in the corners the Clio was slighter quicker.

I’m sure Ben would add his perspective on this.

But ultimately it depends on what you want

I have to say I don't agree with this and neither do physics.

You can swap out the NA lump for the 225 with pretty much no weight penalty. You swap the turbo for Aircon.

The handling of the car is not really compromised by the additional power/torque/weight and so driven by the same driver the meg powered clio will be significantly faster on track.

Mine is significantly faster on track. On my recent trackday I was keeping up and passing race cars on slicks including a Clio 3 cup car. (I was running an old set of toyo sport road tyres)

The key difference which changes the entire way you attack the track is power delivery. With max torque just over 3200 rpm on the 225 lump you're not as busy keeping the engine in the higher rev range and you just float the car around on a wave of torque.

In my opinion its personal preference in regards to which option is best for the driver. But there is no way the NA could hope to live with a turbo lump in a track battle.

 

[suj]

@John Gordon I think you missed Big Ben's post after that explained that his is full interior and Beany's is stripped out.

Your points are valid for the same car being stripped (or both full interior).

 

[John Gordon]

@John Gordon I think you missed Big Ben's post after that explained that his is full interior and Beany's is stripped out.

Your points are valid for the same car being stripped (or both full interior).

I did indeed.

 

[Beany]

I have to say I don't agree with this and neither do physics.

You can swap out the NA lump for the 225 with pretty much no weight penalty. You swap the turbo for Aircon.

The handling of the car is not really compromised by the additional power/torque/weight and so driven by the same driver the meg powered clio will be significantly faster on track.

Mine is significantly faster on track. On my recent trackday I was keeping up and passing race cars on slicks including a Clio 3 cup car. (I was running an old set of toyo sport road tyres)

The key difference which changes the entire way you attack the track is power delivery. With max torque just over 3200 rpm on the 225 lump you're not as busy keeping the engine in the higher rev range and you just float the car around on a wave of torque.

In my opinion its personal preference in regards to which option is best for the driver. But there is no way the NA could hope to live with a turbo lump in a track battle.

yeah I’d completely agree with you if both cars were set up identically except one having a meg engine it would be of course quicker over the lap.. however with constant variables and personal choices it’s hard to compare fully on a like for like.

 

[John Gordon]

I think on trackdays the drivers are the biggest variables that make comparisons super difficult.

I think the big one of me is torque. Speed is much more effortless and provokes a completely different driving approach.

There are times where I miss revving it out, thats a much more visceral experience in general.

 

[Big Ben]

I have to say I don't agree with this and neither do physics.

You can swap out the NA lump for the 225 with pretty much no weight penalty. You swap the turbo for Aircon.

The handling of the car is not really compromised by the additional power/torque/weight and so driven by the same driver the meg powered clio will be significantly faster on track.

Mine is significantly faster on track. On my recent trackday I was keeping up and passing race cars on slicks including a Clio 3 cup car. (I was running an old set of toyo sport road tyres)

The key difference which changes the entire way you attack the track is power delivery. With max torque just over 3200 rpm on the 225 lump you're not as busy keeping the engine in the higher rev range and you just float the car around on a wave of torque.

In my opinion its personal preference in regards to which option is best for the driver. But there is no way the NA could hope to live with a turbo lump in a track battle.

100% John that timed lapping a standard 197 against a 197 with 225 lump With the same driver and variables The boosted car would be quicker.

 

[John Gordon]

I'm going again next week with the R888r and lighter wheels. Will be interesting to note my laptime difference with the tyres.

Also going to start stripping out weight. I could stage it to get a non scientific idea of how much effect changes make on track.

Of course, there will be variables like tyre wear/cycle etc But it could be interesting.

I'm guessing 2-3 seconds a lap from the tyres.

 

[suj]

Also the fact you're learning about the track and the car more....it's very hard to get accurate deltas due to changed items, unless you're racing where tenths matter, enjoy the track and getting out there (this isn't directed at you lol).

 

[John Gordon]

Also the fact you're learning about the track and the car more....it's very hard to get accurate deltas due to changed items, unless you're racing where tenths matter, enjoy the track and getting out there (this isn't directed at you lol).

I totally agree. I just go out, do my thing and see what I've collected on the lap timer. I'm not chasing tenths at all, i have to drive home and I dont have a cage/harnesses.

Would probably be more accurate to compare average laptimes.

 

[Big Ben]

I'm going again next week with the R888r and lighter wheels. Will be interesting to note my laptime difference with the tyres.

Also going to start stripping out weight. I could stage it to get a non scientific idea of how much effect changes make on track.

Of course, there will be variables like tyre wear/cycle etc But it could be interesting.

I'm guessing 2-3 seconds a lap from the tyres.

Let us know how you find the R888R. They’re on my radar for an arrive and drive tyre

 

[John Gordon]

Let us know how you find the R888R. They’re on my radar for an arrive and drive tyre

Exactly why I went for them. I hear they do not yield as much grip but wear slower and work better in the wet. We shall see.

 

[N0ddie]

Exactly why I went for them. I hear they do not yield as much grip but wear slower and work better in the wet. We shall see.

What tyres did you use before the R888-R?

 

[John Gordon]

What tyres did you use before the R888-R?

I've tried a few different types. The last set I had were a set of NS2R which was a control tyre for a local championship. Had 100 wear rating.