LY200 - too loud or blow up again, taking bets!

[krash67]

What he is saying is valid and please don't "go testing". Just some physics behind your findings. The engine is one big air pump, so the more it wants to swallow and try's to suck through a narrow opening it will depress the pressure in the inlet manifold - increasing vacuum. So opening the TB out will provide a increased volume to easy the vacuum issue and not hinder the performance and efficiency of the cycle.

 

[TB Rich]

Ah but if I wasn't testing and playing I might have to use the thing and that might result in blowing it up again!

Anyway for simplicity I should stick to my plan of running as is, and then swapping over to the ported inlet plus 64mm. And just open the new inlets mouth to 66mm to suit it. Any other combination of TB won't work because of the mouth sizes really.

MSC Engineering who seem to do quite a lot of Clio inlets are only an hour away so once the suspensions done I'll suggest I run the car and inlet together to them to take a template of my inlet ports, as they are probably different to stock.
I think that'll be as good as I can make a plenum setup on the 83x, and as I'm not intending to go ape shit on the cam choice now - it 'should' still idle..... (but I hope it's dirty! )

 

[MY95]

Lovely car!
I have a 306 HDI, and can vouch for HDI-Tuning, I used Mr Whippy in Yorkshire as he was closest to me 3 years ago when I bought mine, but HDI Tuning is the one to go for these days, around £150 if he comes to you and you don't read the map off and use a KWP2000 device to put the map on the car yourself. If you need any more info just PM me, had my 306 HDI 3 years now, and had a 206 HDI before that. Looking to get a 182 now though as ive got bored of torque now aha.

 

[James17]

So where did you get your 64mm throttle body done? I have a spare 197 one I could get worked on and keep my 200 original one. Could just a garage modify it?

Thanks

 

[Jesse James]

Lovely car!
I have a 306 HDI, and can vouch for HDI-Tuning, I used Mr Whippy in Yorkshire as he was closest to me 3 years ago when I bought mine, but HDI Tuning is the one to go for these days, around £150 if he comes to you and you don't read the map off and use a KWP2000 device to put the map on the car yourself. If you need any more info just PM me, had my 306 HDI 3 years now, and had a 206 HDI before that. Looking to get a 182 now though as ive got bored of torque now aha.

What sort of figures are you getting from your Hi?

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[TB Rich]

Thanks, I'll get around to mapping the 206 one day, at that sort of money they seem a good shout then.

The 64mm TB is a factory BMW part so didn't need doing anywhere - however I would not advise it unless you are porting the inlet out too, as this TB has a 66mm exit and the inlet entry is 64mm - you really don't want a step like that.
I chose it as part of considered choice with the inlet being done, of course it always raises the question at what point do you need the inlet/tb doing - it is quite possible not even my spec... find out soon enough.

When I've hooked it up and tested it properly - I'll put the part numbers up etc. So far I've just confirmed the bolt spacing is correct, and via wiring diags I know 4 of the 6 wires are correct, the other 2 wires look correct but I'm not great at reading diags - I'll post the pics up in a bit.

 

[TB Rich]

So this is the Clio DBW wiring.




And I found in 2 places the BMW DBW unit wiring for the VDO unit I have:






So,
Pins 3 & 5 do the motor control.
Pins 1 & 4 do the TPS 1 & 2 signal
Which leaves pins 2 & 6 - I believe they act as ref Gnd and ref +Ve - the query is which way around judging from the BMW diagrams...!? :\

Hence why I'll just plug it in and try - only a standalone to blow if it's wrong

 

[James17]

Ok cool thanks, damn it I've been looking online too much and would love some ITBs haha pure motorsport and ATP seem good. Know nothing about them though.

Sorry for hijacking the thread!

 

[Raptor6767]

Rich, where did you find wiring diagrams for the Clio?

 

[TB Rich]

If I thought ITBs would deliver the 'correct' results I'd fit them, however....there are a lot of packaging issues on the mk3 which means getting enough tract length comes with compromises for a road car. And running the off the shelf ATP setup whilst retaining stock rad and slam etc, it appears too short - and very little genuine data on power graphs etc to make an informed judgement.

Assuming your inlet isn't restricting (and my modded setup should certainly ensure that) then the next key reason for ITBs is simply to allow for idle and low speed tractability when running very large cams (principally inlet reversion - spent combustion charge traveling back up the inlet through overlap, when gas speed is slow enough that it carries not enough inertia - as for scavenging to increase VE gas speed must be high so that it carries enough inertia to improve the cylinder fill. This reversion dilutes the plenum volume for the next cylinders intake cycle, combined often with some plenum charge robbing is why big cams idle and drive like shit around town on a plenum).
But, factor that the sort of cams to induce these issues and you are going to be making peak power above 8k, so on this engine you're in to solid lifter territory and full race top end - not remotely applicable to road and even track day use unless you want 1000km rebuilds. So I am far from convinced the mk3 needs them. The Mk2 of course has a shit inlet, hence common on them.

I'm going to take a punt on the next cams being fine on a plenum, and peak should be about 7.7k.
Perhaps PMS might develop a set for the mk3, and all the associated components to solve packaging constraints too. With enough supporting data then I'd consider it based on results.

Raptor I'll msg you, think it's all in a pretty large .zip

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[Raptor6767]

Cheers Rich.

 

[TB Rich]

Carbon Evo vent turned up today, fantastic quality which makes a change quite frankly - so here's the link if any one wants one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Evo-4-5-6...hash=item4d53c28493:m:m0kYcQqZCyH6UJjkRNx4FEw



And on top of my spare LY bonnet, I think it's going to look damn good so I'll cut my bonnet and keep the spare bonnet as stand by, it's getting hung up on the office wall!!

(can't believe I'm still putting up with this shit phone - horrendous high ISO!)

Here's the radio blank, but seeing the carbon of the vent has confirmed to me I need to replace it with some pre-preg! Turns out the vent was produced about 20mins from me! So I think it's time I make an acquaintance



It's not amazing but it matches the Satnav and really ties it together as I had hoped it would.

 

[Yiannis197]

Very nice Rich, very nice

 

[sevenfourate]

LOVE that.....i feel some 'vent participation' coming on sometime.

Is that the position your putting it in Rich ? (A whole topic all by itself i know.............)

 

[TB Rich]

Yeah it'll be roughly in that position as that's over the air filter on mine.

On a ktec style kit you'd want the vent further back.


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[Pav]

does the engine get that hot so you have to fit a bonnet vent Rich??

 

[TB Rich]

It's not engine heat as such, it's to ensure the coldest air supply I can in an effort to add as much knock overhead. I wouldn't bother if it wasn't high comp, although I am thinking it'll look pretty baller now!!

I'm building some heat shields too (will be carbon or nimbus gii) and seal the top edges against the bonnet - ensure the cone filter sits on a well fed pool of cold air.
Tbh only reason that's not finished yet is it's so sodding cold outside!


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[pdd144c]

Wiring on those tb looks the same to me Rich, just using slightly different symbols.

 

[tombate911]

Wiring on those tb looks the same to me Rich, just using
slightly different symbols.

Agreed with the above. Pin out and wiring looks exactly the same.

 

[TB Rich]

Cheers, I've got some the 4 tb bolts coming from Renault next week so be able to mount it properly and get the inlet sorted soon enough.

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