LY200 - too loud or blow up again, taking bets!

[TB Rich]

I didn't fit mine on its own so can't judge in isolation, but my car now with the light pulley too, well you can pull off on clutch alone and it doesn't feel close to stalling (well once the thing is warm, my cold start right now is quite bad!).
The main criticism I've seen leveid at light fly's in dailys is usually to do with that sort of thing, so I guess then as far as I'm concerned I could even go lighter it seems - so no issues recommending the TTV steel unit I have. If there are any negatives I've not noticed and when so many 'performance' mods seem to have draw backs with either noise, nvh, longevity etc, this one seems to be fit and forget I would say.

Possibly some of these seriously light drilled and alloy ones might be an issue, but the alloy ones I'd never consider anyway as I dont like the 2 piece design of those with the steel teeth and interface fit pressed alloy centres. Doesn't strike me as a good idea frankly and I've seen the odd story online about them failing - though usual take with a pinch of salt I guess!

 

[TB Rich]

A little update after the track day at Snetterton on the 25th. Short version, made it there, tracked all day with no engine or noise issues, came home.

However it was certainly a difficult day. I knew going there my AD08R were not perfect, the 2 on the rear had plenty of life but the 2 on the front were on the wear makers. So when I got there I swapped the fronts to the rear because left at the front there was not a chance of them being legal on the drive home. Well...terrible decision frankly!
The car was very unsettled and as Snett was incredibly greasy even just warming up on my 2nd maybe 3rd lap the back just came round hard and whilst I managed to 'gather' (barely!) it up, I had an off track excursion and collected a trophy, sorry cone!

Playing with pressures and taking some out the back I got it such that it was more balanced, but the rear was constantly wanting to step out which was quite frustrating as I simply didn't have any confidence to push on corner entry, and when ever I started to lean on it, the back was there!! Totally different to how it was in the dry at Combe when all 4 tyres were good - so moral of the story...fit decent tyres before. I had my reasons not to, in that being the first track day in 3 years the car needed to prove itself reliable before I felt like splurging out on tyres for it. That said, it was hard bloody work driving it and I won't be going to the track on bald tyres again!
I also want to retract anything good I've ever said about EBC Yellow's, they've done me ok before - not lasting great but ultimately they've taken abuse without fade, work well on the road from cold, and are of course cheap. However.... this set!! Utter dogshit, totally wooden feeling, and grumbled like absolute buggery if you leant on them at all. They didn't fade, but they really didn't inspire confidence. A guy a few garages up had put a new set in to his 370Z race car, the pads were on the backing plates and he said he'd done 15 maybe 20 laps tops! Day was over for that car.
So DS1.11 and new rotors before the next day, I kind of knew this would be the case, but I was expecting the Yellows to at least perform decently.

 

[Big Ben]

Any trouble with water ingress with the holes in the bumper Rich?

washing or heavy downpours etc...

 

[RSRowe]

That engine bay is so tidy!

 

[TB Rich]

Any trouble with water ingress with the holes in the bumper Rich?

washing or heavy downpours etc...

Not typically and the filter itself is actually sat quite far back from the holes which is probably why (it's about directly where the slam panel would normally be) so it's not been an issue in light rain when left a couple of times - but normally it's inside a Cair-o-port in the garage.
I've driven in light/average rain a couple of times and not been an issue, and the 1 time I've had to use it when it was absolutely pissing down I did tape them over with some green frog tape!! It looked shit and I don't know if I really needed to, but it was all I had to hand and seemed a good idea given how heavy the rain was.

I tape them over when I wash the car also, as well has plastic bag over the filter - I didn't once and the filter did get wet from the wash process.

I've seen you can get filter bag's for motorcyles, I may look into one of those, filter for your filter?! But I would assume they are coarse enough to not restrict any air but enough of a mesh to take the water out? I could just leave it in the boot if I ever get caught in the rain.

That engine bay is so tidy!

Thanks, it def helps getting rid of bits like a/c that would normally be there! Was thinking the cam pulley cover and upper arm could go crackle black, not sure I'd ever bother unless those parts had to come off but think it would look good.

 

[bedoef]

So how's she running? Long time no update @TB Rich!!

 

[TB Rich]

So how's she running? Long time no update @TB Rich!!

Hmm, well despite a full brake overhaul another frustrating track day the other month.
Last track day the brakes were grumbly underfoot, I put it down to yellow stuff pads which can be hit or miss (although always been decent for me). So replaced the rotor section with Godspeed 6 groove items (curved internal vanes too), DS1.11 front pads, DS2500 rears, and new RBF660 fluid. Also new set of Cup2s all round......mint I thought/assumed/hoped!!

Nope, not the case! Once you got up to fast lapping speed (ie standing on the brakes level of braking) then the vibrations were unreal, to the point the car was being upset in to the corners.
Now everyone keeps telling me it’s deposits but I’m not buying it, I think there’s a fundamental issue with the 2 piece rotor I have - because it’s a fixed not floating setup. With the new pads, rotors and tyres I’m able to lean on the brakes more than ever and I think the expansion of the dissimilar metals is the issue giving a warping like effect when baking hot. After all, race rotors are floating to mitigate this exact reason.

Reyland did release a floating bobbin kit so I’ll will see if my bells are suitable, but if not I think I’ll go PFC floating.

but yeah engine was otherwise great, used little oil, sounded fucking thunderous, and didn’t get the black flag!!
I think the engine is easily as quick as the old one despite lack of mid range compared, however for general feel this drives nicer and wants to rev more (and currently holds a 2 successive track day success rate, whereas I think my forged engines were both 1 time ‘specials’? )

 

[RSRowe]

Myself and 2 friends have all had issues with judder on DS1.11
They generally only start on wet trackdays when we aren’t braking too hard (standard discs though)

We’ve resorted to honing the faces of the discs after every trackday.

 

[bedoef]

I was running DS1.11 on the compbrake 2 piece 330mm kit, and they would judder after a few weeks of street driving. I gave up and switched to reylands floating kit last year and other than a little judder on the first track day with the pads and discs getting acquainted, they've been rock solid no complaints. No judder, no fade nothing.

 

[L33 KUP]

I’ve also had exactly this on the Reyland two piece kit, not floating type, and DS1.11 I’ve skimmed the face again and bought pagid RS29 pads in the hope all is okay and going to ensure I’ve got more cooling going there but like you the vibrations were unreal almost felt like my rack was coming undone.

When on a skimming machine you could see quite clearly the amount the disc was untrue. Be it from the heat or just how they are but was not happy. Kind of got fobbed off too when I asked about it. I think the floating kit may be worth it but honestly if it happens again I’m going to mk3 RS29 callipers and standard discs. That way if it happens again I can just buy new discs without breaking the bank.

 

[RSRowe]

I think the common factor here is the pads......

I did speak to Kev at Kam Racing, and he said he’d never heard of anyone have issues like me and my friends have had - and he sells a lot of them. He suggested going to Winmax pads, but they’re even more expensive than the 1.11’s

 

[TB Rich]

I think the common factor is the discs, given I've run 2 different compounds and had the same problem now. Worse on the DS1.11, but given the ability to simply put more heat in to the rotors then it's exacerbating the underlying problem, and I think attributing the DS1.11 outright is a red herring.

Reyland require new bells and of course the bobbins. Will be at a cost of just shy of £450 (£250 for new bells and I think the retaining system was £186) and I can use my new Godspeed rotors with them. I guess I can sell my bells for what £100 ish? So total net spend being £350.
Or, PFC for £850, and then sell my entire discs with the new rotors and AP bolts, fixed bells - maybe £350? So total expense of £500. I don't mind the extra but really the trouble with these is the colossal £600+ for replacement rotors! If I also do need to end up changing to a pad like an RC6 or Winmax that are fairly aggressive on the rotors....that's a bit steep to keep replacing.

Sp tempted to go Reyland floating bells, do I stick with gold bells and red calipers... (or black bells and orange calipers?!)

Now:

Quick lash up: (am very likely going to do carbon spoiler and carbon roof scoop anyway)

Kinda like the orange! But in the flesh the gold/red looks excellent too :\

And gold/red with the silhouette of the spoiler/roof:

 

[suj]

Rich, I seen someone post these, i've not used them but I know people who have used Hispec calipers and discs and had no complaints.

Hispec Rotor Sizes

Might be worth seeing if they can make something for your bells?

 

[TB Rich]

Rich, I seen someone post these, i've not used them but I know people who have used Hispec calipers and discs and had no complaints.

Hispec Rotor Sizes

Might be worth seeing if they can make something for your bells?

Cheers, my rotors have been replaced with Godspeed with curved internal vanes. These are interchangeable between the fixed and floating bells so I can reuse them no probs.
(I guess I need to check ktec fitted them the right way around though).

In theory you could probably machine my bells to suit the floating hardware as it's just some sort of cutout required, but it's easier to just buy them and sell the fixed ones really.

 

[turkie172]

If your problems are on wet track days then it will be using the brakes below their working temperature if you have air ducts for brakes then fully tape them up or half block them. Most teams including rally teams will have wet weather discs and pads because pads can contaminate the disc surface and affect any different pad you use after plus your not going to brake as hard in the wet anyway.

 

[suj]

That makes sense, sorry I just had a look at the Reyland setup on their site.

Yeah it would be easier selling it on and getting a new bell etc if you did decide to go down that route.
I had similar at 'Ring in my 200sx, it was undriveable (as in I had so little confidence getting on the brakes), I got back from Ring got some decent OEM tyre discs + Pagid RS29 pads, no problems since, I wish I just went for them to start with, best pads bar none i've tried (at the time, of course times change, there might be better, but looking on my old track forums, they are still highly regarded).

 

[TB Rich]

If your problems are on wet track days then it will be using the brakes below their working temperature if you have air ducts for brakes then fully tape them up or half block them. Most teams including rally teams will have wet weather discs and pads because pads can contaminate the disc surface and affect any different pad you use after plus your not going to brake as hard in the wet anyway.

No exact opposite. I suspect it's when the brakes get too hot and it's the point the rotor and the bell are expanding at a different rate. Which is what floating is supposed to mitigate.

Driving on the road always perfect what ever the weather (not that I use it in the rain). Driving the first couple of laps on track getting the car, brakes, tyres up to temp - everything is fine with no hint of vibration. Then, when you push on and start lapping quickly and using the brakes like you're meant to (short and hard), then within a lap or 2 the thing feels like it's going to shake itself off the track! If you push through and carry on, it doesn't get better.

The less 'good' Yellowstuff pad I had, the problem was apparent. Switching to the better DS1.11 pad, they problem is much worse - because I can put more heat in to the brakes (I also switched to Cup2's so again allowing more braking effort with the better contact adhesion).

 

[TB Rich]

That makes sense, sorry I just had a look at the Reyland setup on their site.

Yeah it would be easier selling it on and getting a new bell etc if you did decide to go down that route.
I had similar at 'Ring in my 200sx, it was undriveable (as in I had so little confidence getting on the brakes), I got back from Ring got some decent OEM tyre discs + Pagid RS29 pads, no problems since, I wish I just went for them to start with, best pads bar none i've tried (at the time, of course times change, there might be better, but looking on my old track forums, they are still highly regarded).

Yeah I had no problem with stock tyres, discs and only Yellowstuff pads (plus fluid) back in the early days of this car! I just don't want to revert as it's a backwards step (even though it was more succeful!). It has to be possible to run a nicer looking bigger 330mm discs and a decent pad.

Floating Reyland, DS1.11 I think is the next thing to try.
Do a caliper rebuild too if the seals look a little worse for wear when I swap them.

If it's still bad, switch to a metallic based pad like an RC6. - If it's still bad.... well I guess PFC discs! And then after than I don't think there is much else!

 

[suj]

I understand your reasoning, but it's not really a step back....if it works better lol
I would get RS29s + some Brembo HCs with caliper spacer removed and you'll have a great setup, then if you still want to go bigger disc it still uses the same pad (or do the above with your DS1.11s for the sake of what, £70-80 for Brembo discs?)

 

[TB Rich]

I understand your reasoning, but it's not really a step back....if it works better lol
I would get RS29s + some Brembo HCs with caliper spacer removed and you'll have a great setup, then if you still want to go bigger disc it still uses the same pad (or do the above with your DS1.11s for the sake of what, £70-80 for Brembo discs?)

Yeah I get that but I can't believe that the 330mm floating setup wouldn't be better than HC's, so if it's £80 for HC's and £350 for me to convert to floating - then it's only an extra £280 to run the bigger discs.

There's no doubt the DS1.11 is a fussy twat of a pad based on everything I've read subsequent to buying them (why is it always after the matter!), and I won't be buying them again. However they do have tons of outright power and if floating does resolve the vibration issues then it'll be an awesome setup finally.