Hi advice greatfully received

[Mr Squibbs]

Hi all

Just joined up to get some opinions from the owners of 197's.

To give you a quick breif about me and why I am here, I'm 21 and a predominately a German car fan, just always preffered their reliability and looks inside and out. Jap cars have horrible interiors and French cars aren't/weren't reliable enough for me.

My first car was a 99' mk4 Polo, I then had a Polo Colour Concept, extremely rare little car, in yellow with yellow and black heated leather recaro's as standard on the Colour Concepts, and I now have an 04' Audi A3 2.0TDi DSG - which sadly I havn't really 'bonded' with, I was obsessive about cleaning the Polo, and used to do the whole meets and shows thing, but havn't since I bought the A3 in Oct 08, its kinda now just an A - B thing.

I've been fortunate enough to have been offered the chance to cover my boss whilst she is on maternity leave until Sept 10, and with the new role came alot more money.

My dream 'realistic' car has always been a TT, after 6 months of looking I've not found a single one in my price range (around 10k) in the right colour with low miles.

Which started me thinking about what else I could get for my money, I've looked at Type R's, Polo GTi's, S2000's, Cooper S' and so on, but I've found a fault with all them.
TT - too expensive best you can get is 02/03
Type R - not keen on interior
Polo GTi - not keen on interior, under powered
S2000 - £3,000 insurance quote!!
Cooper S - Not totally sold on the new mini

All this has led me hear, I saw a red 197 the other day, and thought wow what a nice car! Started looking at them and you get quite a bit for your money, xenons, push start, climate etc etc....and from what I've read in reviews and so forth, they are great handling as all hot hatches should and quite fast.

What I wanna know is if you were in my position would you buy one? The trouble I am also having is that Direct Line wont quote me online for one which is strange as its Group 15, but they will quote me on a TT group 18!?! How many 21 year olds are on here?

As I said about I am covering my boss, so assuming she is back in work nexy Sept, and their isnt any opportunities to take my newly learned skills to another team, and do the same role as I am doing now, I will be going down quite a bit of money, what are they like to run? Obviously not as economical as my A3, but if you drive it sensibly do you get a good return out of a tank? Alot of my mileage is on the motorway, so should be able to save fuel there.

Thank you for taking the time to read this

 

[Mr Squibbs]

My current car...

oopps cant link it for some reason....

 

[Raptor6767]

TBH, I will never buy a Renault again. Especially RS cars.

I'm greatly disappointed by the overall quality. :confused1:


If I were you, I would get a Polo GTI, or something else if I were you.

Golf GTI ED30 used maybe? Or Golf VI GTI DSG?

 

[jase]

tbh im completely the opposite.
this is my first french car (had a mk4 golf 1.8T before and did all the shows for about 5/6 years) and i was so impressed by the car that i created this site.
mpg isnt great but no one buys a hot hatch thinking it will be good on fuel.
on the motorway i get close to 40mpg but normally the mpg is sat around 26.

 

[Mr Squibbs]

Raptor 6767 -really? thats a shame, from what ive seen and read the quality is far better than i expected. the problem with the polo is its not fast enough 150 bhp out of a 1.8T is ridiculous, the interior is nasty and the it doesnt handle too well from what ive heard. Cant insure the ED30 Golf either which is a shame and also out my price range i think

Jase - its interesting that you have a similar background to me, did you always hav that feeling towards french cars that they were crap? You read so much on German car forums, most of it negative towards french cars.

Yea MPG isnt a great deal, like you said you dont buy a hot hatch expecting gd mpg but wanted to know its not stupidly rubbish.

Thanks for the responses so far, looking for some more opinions

 

[ben_r1]

Most of my mileage is also motorway use and realistically if im just cruising along i can reach upto 40mpg, but average about 37mpg usually.

And dont listen to the reviews about it being buzzy and revvy on the motorway, in 6th gear at 70 its not that bad honest.

 

[Mr Squibbs]

Cool yea that was one of the things I had read, glad it's ok on motorway, my A3 is quite noisy TBH

 

[Ozi]

The build quality is not that bad tbh I had a Fiat Bravo 1.4 T-Jet for 6 months and there were alot of little problems with it. Won't say that Renault is on the same level as VW but the Renault Sport models are far better than std Renaults. That doesn't mean they are without flaws (consistency is the problems - some Clios are very well build some are not). I kinda got used to problems with new(er) cars. Haven't seen a single one without any problems hmy:

As mentioned my Bravo had an annoying rattle in the front, the gearbox was notchy or better still is because the fault is in the construction of the gearbox (thanks GM - 159 Alfas have the same problem) and lots of other small problems. Our Santa Fe II had a rattling passenger seat (1200€ cause it's electrical and beige leather - almost couldn't get it fixed on warranty) and the horn didn't work, the e-brake made some problems and that actually was about it. My friend is very fond on VW or better on everything from VAG. He had a Golf GTI Edition 30 DSG - had to replace the gearbox, ECU, turbo, head,...etc. and he also has a Audi Allroad 3.0TDI and after 1 month the MMI has gone fishing as did the clutch but on the other hand his Golf V 1.9TDI has over 170k km on the clock and is almost without a flaw.

I could go on but I think I made my point. Every new car has it's problems. It's logical - it's a working maschine and if it's not properly engineered, build,...etc. you have problems and even if all these variables are "spot-on" there still can be problems due to the nature of it. You can avoid this by taking proven manufacturers - like VW but there is still a chance of having problems even if it's smaller.

The thing you need to decide is if you're willing to pay that much more for a car with the same performances/equipment or would you rather maybe have a problem or two. And there is always this - "maybe" so actually all I wrote is pointless and we can only offer you our own subjective opinions

Sorry for writing such a long post but I have some time now rofl

Here is my opinion:

TT - agree! To expensive but the build quality is really spot-on and Audi is making from generation to generation more driver oriented cars. I sure fancy the new design they achieved with the help of Walter de Silva. Hope you don't mean the first TT thought. That car was rubbish - the first model even had lead weights in the back to keep it stable - nothing ESP didn't handle in the fl models lol

S2000 - uuu really nice car. The engine is marvelous but it needs to be pushed like the Clio to get the most out of it. If you're not willing to trash your car all the time maybe a better solution would be a turbocharged one? Will tell you later what I have in mind lol the thing that bugs me most about the S2000 is that it's only a two-seater and if you don't have a hardtop your roof can be easily damaged and that's not a cheap fix.

Polo GTI - 1.8T 150hp? Omg no! But not because of the engine that is very lazy std btw but because of the handling. VAG didn't want to make the mistake again they did with the first TTs and so the hanling has been made to be "safe" and that means understeer lots and lots of hideous understeer. Drove one and didn't like it from the begining but that's my opinion. The engine is quite capable though.

This is from a tuner in Slovenia:

Stage 1: remap + airfilter + blowoff (cca. 800 EUR, 200hp)
Stage 2: Stage 1 + exhaust (cca. 1.500 EUR, 220hp)
Stage 3: Stage 2 + turbo kit (K04) + injectors + intercooler (cca. 5.000 EUR, cca. 300-330hp)
Stage 4: Stage 3 + pistons/rods + head-porting + custom intake & exhaust manifold + Vi-PEC ECU (od 10.000 EUR, 350 do 600hp...depends on the budgeta)

Cooper S - love this one. Great handling, very tunable, build quality is great (bmw ftw lol) and it's a car you just feel good in. I had a smile on my face the whole time I drove one. But good ones sure are expensive (here in Slovenia).

Honda Civic Type R Ep3 - one of my favourites althought it looks like a van compared to the older Civic models lol independent rear suspension, good handling, Honda build quality hehe and the engine. It's not that fast but it is so tunable. It has a really sofisticated ECU with interpolation maps which really can control almost anything you put on the engine and there are so many parts. 230-240hp is reachable with these mods:

JDM DC5 camshafts (revision3)
RBC Honda intake manifold
Hondata Intake manifold gasket
R.Crew TB adaptor
DCsports racing 4-2-1 header
Invidia G200-Ti cat-back exhaust
AKR cold air intake
+remap

Maybe this doesn't seem much but for a NA engine these gains are quite good fot the money the mods cost.

As for the turbo-charged alternative. Corsa VXR? I didn't like the steering and the gearbox, ok the cheap coloured parts of the interior too lol but the engine impressed me and it's tunable too. With a remap you get so much more gains than with a NA engine. But when I drove the VXR like my Clio on the same road the clio did 19mpg when the VXR did only 13mpg lol and I there was still some room to push the Corsa harder.

Clio 197: (I have it only for a couple of months)

+handling
+engine in high revs and actually for a factory tuned NA it isn't bad at low revs too
+sound
+gearbox when warm
+steering
+looks
+mpg if you can control your right foot and don't rev it stupidly (30mpg can be achieved quite easy but around 23-25mpg is more real cause you do squeeze the throttle even if you don't need to lol)
+build quality to a certain degree
+the feeling when trashing it (really can't describe this one lol)

-build quality (some rattles that you have to fix, Recaros wearing,...)
-quite a hard ride with the Cup suspension
-gearbox when cold
-mpg when trashing it although it's not that bad
-looks of the interior (to plain and boring for such a car)

How about a Focus ST? Golf GTI? Leon Cupra? Something with a turbo it sure feels quicker and the mpg can be very good when driving it normally.

Enough for now lol

 

[Paul]

As Jase said you can get 40mpg on the motorway at 70, which isn't groundbreaking but its not bad either - you can easily live with it.

Like you I had not been a big fan of French cars and had always considered them a bit of a joke, until I had took a 197 out and was amazed by it. The interior is a relly nice place to be and I find the driving position excellent - I genuinely look forward to every journey! I would recommend going to your nearest dealer and taking a test drive if you haven't done already.

My personal opinion is that it is one of the best value hot hatches - you get so much for your money!

I was 21 when I got the clio and Direct Line wouldn't insure me either but they would do when I put the GF on the insurance too - it also brought the quote down by a large amount, might be something you could do too!

 

[jase]

Yeah I did have the same conception about French cars.
I bought my 197 based on looks and the fact I could get alot more for my money than I could with german cars. The performance was I bonus.
As soon I got mine everyone was saying " oh no, it's French, the electrics will be nothing but trouble" but I've had less trouble with the 197 than I ever had with the mk4.
All cars have their silly little problems, it's all down to how your treated, vw treated me pants. In the first year of having my car it was at the dealers for 4 months I got a curtousy car but not for all the time and they kept changing it till I ended up with a fabia 1.2 and nothing as a sorry for not being able to fix the car sooner.

 

[smiler]

mate im 21 had the 197 for a year now and love it to pieces im insured with admiral atm did get a quote with direct line but wasnt the cheapest and if you only just turned 21 then you'll have to wait about 1-2 months then ask them for a quote as i found out when i was looking

 

[Mr Squibbs]

Blimy, thank u for all the time and effort
in the responses.

Ozi - u certainly know your stuff, wouldn't own a ford, can't stand them lol, golf wud hav to be a mk4 and I cud see that getting expensive lol my mates got a mint one and would cost alot to get like his

F1team07 - totally agree with you mate best hatch on the market, hadn't considered putting my GF on the policy, does that really work? Do you hav to b at the same address?

Jase - I guess it is a lottery at the end of the day ay

 

[Mr Squibbs]

Smiled - was 21 in June, I've been on compare the Market and cheapest quote was £1300 with admiral I think, the problem I'm having is my policy is up for renewal in march and I don't wanna change now, wud b a shame to lose 9 months ncb

 

[Ozi]

Didn't know you don't like Ford lol isn't Focus the no.1 hatch in the UK sure liked the sound of the ST but didn't impress me with the performances tbh the handling is Ford typically great but the engine :mellow:

What about this?



A friend has one. It's a nimble hatch (more of a "warm" than a hot hatch hehe) and the engine is very good. With a panel filter and remap you get around 170-175hp with good mpg :thumbup1: the interior is nice and almost all Italian cars have some kind of flair that makes them fun to drive even though the quality isn't that good but for the record it has improved during the last years and the Grande Punto is one of their best products.

As for the Golf I ment mk.5 - maybe with DSG :thumbup1: that 2.0TFSI engine is simply :thumbup: the mk.4 GTI was more of a humm don't really know how to say it. Not a proper GTI? It was only a 1.8T engine from VAG strapped into a Golf IV body and some esthetic features with more equipment and that was it. The mk.5 is again a real GTI :tongue_smilie:

 

[Paul]

All I can say is that it worked for me and took a bit off the premium (thank god ) - I suppose it depends a lot on what history she has had really. We don't live at the same address and it didn't come up in the questions, all it asked was where the car was kept overnight, which is at mine.

Couldn't agree more on the Focus ST, I hate that car with a passion, talk about a bandwagon which everyone has jumped on! My dad & mate have had Leon FRs and have liked those, a lot cheaper than a Golf (insurance and cost) but it is the same platform and engine? Not too sure how they work it out but it is...

 

[Ozi]

...but it is the same platform and engine? Not too sure how they work it out but it is...

It is the same platform and the same engine but the Seat has more weight iirc and then suspension is softer than in the Golf. VAG wants the Golf to be more sporty eh

 

[simon]

The suspension in the Seats is bone crunchingly hard. I had trouble getting out of a Leon Cupra after a test drive my back hurt so much! The Audi "sport" suspension is similar so make sure you get an extended test drive if you do look at the TT.

My only real complaint with the Clio is that it is so hard to drive normally. It always seems to be encouraging me to try that roundabout a little faster than last time which means every road becomes a race circuit!

 

[jase]

my mate has just got rid of his TT after just 6 months, because the suspension was so hard.

 

[Ozi]

The suspension in the Seats is bone crunchingly hard. I had trouble getting out of a Leon Cupra after a test drive my back hurt so much! The Audi "sport" suspension is similar so make sure you get an extended test drive if you do look at the TT.

My only real complaint with the Clio is that it is so hard to drive normally. It always seems to be encouraging me to try that roundabout a little faster than last time which means every road becomes a race circuit!

Normally if the suspension is so hard std the manufacturer tries to compensate a bad setup of the suspension :closedeyes: a good example are old Alfas. The GTV has McPherson type suspension in the front with alot of camber std and multilink rear suspension - both fully independable. But the shocks and springs are set so badly that the car leans left and right like a ship on see and it's so hard that when driving over a bump you can brake your back so wtf does the car understeer so badly and is wobbly? It's the setup of the whole suspension. A m8's got one and he mounted Koni adjustable springs with Eibach Prokit springs and it transformed the car. Now he glides over bumps and is even faster on the track :w00t:

It's kinda wierd the Leon is so hard cause the "basics" of the suspension are one of the best if made properly :confused1: wouldn't need to be so hard tbh

With the Clio it's a bit different....

 

[Mr Squibbs]

Didn't know you don't like Ford lol isn't Focus the no.1 hatch in the UK sure liked the sound of the ST but didn't impress me with the performances tbh the handling is Ford typically great but the engine :mellow:

What about this?



A friend has one. It's a nimble hatch (more of a "warm" than a hot hatch hehe) and the engine is very good. With a panel filter and remap you get around 170-175hp with good mpg :thumbup1: the interior is nice and almost all Italian cars have some kind of flair that makes them fun to drive even though the quality isn't that good but for the record it has improved during the last years and the Grande Punto is one of their best products.

As for the Golf I ment mk.5 - maybe with DSG :thumbup1: that 2.0TFSI engine is simply :thumbup: the mk.4 GTI was more of a humm don't really know how to say it. Not a proper GTI? It was only a 1.8T engine from VAG strapped into a Golf IV body and some esthetic features with more equipment and that was it. The mk.5 is again a real GTI :tongue_smilie:

hhmmm im sure its a quick car, but im not a Fiat fan.....are you spotting a theme here? I guess I'm a bit of a badge snob. I do like the mk5 Golf but cant really afford a low miler

All I can say is that it worked for me and took a bit off the premium (thank god ) - I suppose it depends a lot on what history she has had really. We don't live at the same address and it didn't come up in the questions, all it asked was where the car was kept overnight, which is at mine.

Couldn't agree more on the Focus ST, I hate that car with a passion, talk about a bandwagon which everyone has jumped on! My dad & mate have had Leon FRs and have liked those, a lot cheaper than a Golf (insurance and cost) but it is the same platform and engine? Not too sure how they work it out but it is...

yea mate always see chavs in the ST's

The suspension in the Seats is bone crunchingly hard. I had trouble getting out of a Leon Cupra after a test drive my back hurt so much! The Audi "sport" suspension is similar so make sure you get an extended test drive if you do look at the TT.

My only real complaint with the Clio is that it is so hard to drive normally. It always seems to be encouraging me to try that roundabout a little faster than last time which means every road becomes a race circuit!

That sounds fantastic to me, I miss that fun, my second Polo was lowered and it was alot of fun going round bends etc...:w00t: