GW 200 CUP (clubsport->racecar->v2)
- Thread starter LiamP
- Start date
LiamP
Paid Member
I didn’t even think we were being that loony
Haha, tbh I think he was disappointed and wanted to get involved!
You too mate
LiamP
Paid Member
Managed to get another last minute day booked at Brands Hatch yesterday, tldr: it was very hot and spacers are officially shit.
New front tyres fitted, kept the rears as they look ok and was hoping they would help with some rotation. Also managed to get my new port flowed manifold/throttle body fitted as well as the alternator support bracket back on (previous lower manifold the thread was non existent)
Had the dashboard off to fit steering column spacers (could do with another thicker set tbh but might create something myself), remove both passenger and wheel airbags (-5kg) and hardwired my Garmin lap timer into the fuse box (handy earth just behind the central temperature controls)
Plugged in my aux cable for some tunes on the way to the circuit yesterday morning only to trigger my hazards and central locking, obviously mixed up some wires when hastily putting the dash back together..
Using the setup how I finished Snetterton with full hard rear and few clicks hard front, immediately felt understeer / grabby feeling on the outside of the tyre. Much to the amusement of the 116 racers I decided I was going to going to try and get to the bottom of this and did the following over a few sessions:
Full soft front, hard rear = Still shit
31|37psi F|R = Marginally better but still shit
Remove rear spacers = Better but still ‘grabby’ when pushing
Remove front and rear spacers = Perfect
I am not sure if it is how my geo is setup or maybe my driving style but with any technical / slow corners the spacers just gave me zero confidence in how the car behaved, once removed it was like driving a different car and the pointy/sharp steering returned immediately.
Really got stuck into the afternoon sessions and loved every second, still looking to get a higher spring rate for the rear but the spacers will certainly be staying off however it will be interesting to see if it impacts my times at Goodwood later this month. Shared a video on the Track Time group with a KA taking the ‘Gravel Line’ through Paddock Hill.
New front tyres fitted, kept the rears as they look ok and was hoping they would help with some rotation. Also managed to get my new port flowed manifold/throttle body fitted as well as the alternator support bracket back on (previous lower manifold the thread was non existent)
Had the dashboard off to fit steering column spacers (could do with another thicker set tbh but might create something myself), remove both passenger and wheel airbags (-5kg) and hardwired my Garmin lap timer into the fuse box (handy earth just behind the central temperature controls)
Plugged in my aux cable for some tunes on the way to the circuit yesterday morning only to trigger my hazards and central locking, obviously mixed up some wires when hastily putting the dash back together..
Using the setup how I finished Snetterton with full hard rear and few clicks hard front, immediately felt understeer / grabby feeling on the outside of the tyre. Much to the amusement of the 116 racers I decided I was going to going to try and get to the bottom of this and did the following over a few sessions:
Full soft front, hard rear = Still shit
31|37psi F|R = Marginally better but still shit
Remove rear spacers = Better but still ‘grabby’ when pushing
Remove front and rear spacers = Perfect
I am not sure if it is how my geo is setup or maybe my driving style but with any technical / slow corners the spacers just gave me zero confidence in how the car behaved, once removed it was like driving a different car and the pointy/sharp steering returned immediately.
Really got stuck into the afternoon sessions and loved every second, still looking to get a higher spring rate for the rear but the spacers will certainly be staying off however it will be interesting to see if it impacts my times at Goodwood later this month. Shared a video on the Track Time group with a KA taking the ‘Gravel Line’ through Paddock Hill.
Helpimonfire
Paid Member
I looked at the Garmin lap timers but they're a bit expensive for my taste The KA video was funny, I saw that when you posted it, good effort by the driver to try to save it!
Strange how some people (myself included) noticed absolutely no difference when running spacers, yet others feel they ruin the handling, I genuinely couldn't tell any difference! Glad you got to the bottom of it though. I do wonder if spacers mess with the car a little too much once it's much lower and running more camber than standard?
The KA video was funny, I saw that when you posted it, good effort by the driver to try to save it!Strange how some people (myself included) noticed absolutely no difference when running spacers, yet others feel they ruin the handling, I genuinely couldn't tell any difference! Glad you got to the bottom of it though. I do wonder if spacers mess with the car a little too much once it's much lower and running more camber than standard?
LiamP
Paid Member
I looked at the Garmin lap timers but they're a bit expensive for my taste
Strange how some people (myself included) noticed absolutely no difference when running spacers, yet others feel they ruin the handling, I genuinely couldn't tell any difference! Glad you got to the bottom of it though. I do wonder if spacers mess with the car a little too much once it's much lower and running more camber than standard?
Not cheap but so far very impressed and might be one of the cheapest modification on an improvement/cost basis.
Amma try mine again next day out. I’m sure there was no difference last time
But saying that, I probably am just wank at noticing. The only reason I know my shocks are on soft is cus the tyres rub. I did Snett with one rear set to full hard, and the other full soft
I have no doubt you would notice it if you drove mine, almost undrivable on track tbh.
burrellbloke
Paid Member
LiamP
Paid Member
I had two black and white flags by lunchtime..
LiamP
Paid Member
Back to NADUK at the start of last week to install recently purchased 100Nm springs for the rear, mega easy to change as you can get away with sliding the spring from the bottom so only one bolt to undo. Rear shims then added to reduce the toe back to 8 degrees both sides and the camber upped on the offside, I am now at the max camber at the front with the AST mounts:
Had the corner weighting checked and the car is currently 1139kg (dry) which I am happy about as its now 20kg lighter but with a half cage. Ideally I get this as close to 1100 but might be tricky with the majority of the interior staying.
Then Goodwood on Friday, weather was ideal with 21 degrees, blue Skys and a full tank.. First time back with the spacers off since having the geo done combined with the spring change the car was very different to drive! I could actually get some rotation of the rear and it felt great.
The morning was very busy so had some time in the queue to check things, had a quick look under the bonnet and noticed my alt belt was in a really bad way (third time) Not wanting to risk things I got out the queue and started phoning around locally to see if I could get a spare, luckily managed to find one (7PK 1135 if anyone is ever after a non Renault belt) so a quick 1hr round trip to Petersfield and super quick change in the pits I was back out after lunch. I have since had a proper look at what is causing this and it seems my tensioner is either faulty or misaligned causing extra tension in the belt, now changed which is hopefully going to fix things.
Overall the car was great and the quickest I have ever been around Goodwood, I think a 1:30 is now possible in this car with the right driver. Quick video of me pushing things a bit too far and taking out a sign BTTC style, wish I had a rear camera (sorry if you have already seen it on fb)
Will soon be joining the cool kids as I have picked up some lightly used MRF’s for £50 a tyre from a civic cup racer so will be interesting to see how they compare to AR1.
Todo list gets longer and longer every day but currently:
- Strip out rear wiring loom / tidy up
- Change front brakes, ds1.11 have only just started to go now they are at about 3mm (9/10 trackdays) so will be replacing
- Black series gearbox and engine mounts (will probably regret this)
- Oil change (gearbox and engine)
- Resist purchase of gripper..
Gone mental and booked lots of trackdays:
- Brands Hatch 27th October
- Snetterton 8th November
- Goodwood 29th November
- Goodwood 17th December
Had the corner weighting checked and the car is currently 1139kg (dry) which I am happy about as its now 20kg lighter but with a half cage. Ideally I get this as close to 1100 but might be tricky with the majority of the interior staying.
Then Goodwood on Friday, weather was ideal with 21 degrees, blue Skys and a full tank.. First time back with the spacers off since having the geo done combined with the spring change the car was very different to drive! I could actually get some rotation of the rear and it felt great.
The morning was very busy so had some time in the queue to check things, had a quick look under the bonnet and noticed my alt belt was in a really bad way (third time) Not wanting to risk things I got out the queue and started phoning around locally to see if I could get a spare, luckily managed to find one (7PK 1135 if anyone is ever after a non Renault belt) so a quick 1hr round trip to Petersfield and super quick change in the pits I was back out after lunch. I have since had a proper look at what is causing this and it seems my tensioner is either faulty or misaligned causing extra tension in the belt, now changed which is hopefully going to fix things.
Overall the car was great and the quickest I have ever been around Goodwood, I think a 1:30 is now possible in this car with the right driver. Quick video of me pushing things a bit too far and taking out a sign BTTC style, wish I had a rear camera (sorry if you have already seen it on fb)
Will soon be joining the cool kids as I have picked up some lightly used MRF’s for £50 a tyre from a civic cup racer so will be interesting to see how they compare to AR1.
Todo list gets longer and longer every day but currently:
- Strip out rear wiring loom / tidy up
- Change front brakes, ds1.11 have only just started to go now they are at about 3mm (9/10 trackdays) so will be replacing
- Black series gearbox and engine mounts (will probably regret this)
- Oil change (gearbox and engine)
- Resist purchase of gripper..
Gone mental and booked lots of trackdays:
- Brands Hatch 27th October
- Snetterton 8th November
- Goodwood 29th November
- Goodwood 17th December
suj
Paid Member
tcw
Paid Member
All looks cool! Any idea what's causing the side/side caster difference?
I've been pondering shimming the rear beam; what kind of ride height are you running also on the rear? How did you decide on how much toe to run? I can get to 0'03 each side (0'06') total, with three shims but need 5 to get to 0'06/0'07 on each side. Due to how it affects the camber.
LiamP
Paid Member
Not sure on the caster tbh and it doesn’t seem to impact anything.
Lots of info on this forum but this thread is really good
Track focused geo settings
Hi! I’m fitting coilovers (gaz gold) at the weekend and was wondering where to start with settings. The car is used for sprints, so laptime is the objective lol What ride height should I start with and were do you measure the ride height from? Should I set the dampening adjustment to the middle...
clio197.net
I am now setup pretty much exactly as the race base specs, note that the ride height is very low and will destroy your arch liners so many go a bit higher. This setup is also for slicks and quite aggressive for the road however many racer ran much more wild camber / toe!
The toe/camber will change a lot when you change the ride height due to the angle of the beam so it can be a real pain getting it to what you want.
LiamP
Paid Member
Brands Hatch 27/10/21
Had intentions to have a v6 box fitted by this point but have instead focussed on mounts by adding the following:
Also replaced the front brakes with ds1.11 again, they had done well but had reached 3mm on one side so needed doing. Annoyingly had to wait 2 weeks before I could bed them in as I refused to get involved with the petrol madness and was completely empty after the last track day.
With a view to take track driving a bit more seriously I have joined the camber and combustion academy which I strongly recommend if you (like me) want to learn the fundamentals of driving fast and car control (also offer video reviews of sessions which is very valuable)
I also got in contact with Mike Epps (ex BTTC and Clio cup) who was one of the instructors at the TO Snetterton day to see if he offers one to one tuition, which he does. Wanted more time as I always feel 20 minutes can only improve you so much, pencilled in my next two days to have two half days with him.
Had Brands Hatch booked for the 27th but sadly Mike had to cancel due to illness, however I was still excited to try out the new spring rate setup. Dry weather and a good mix of cars in the paddock I waited a few minutes for the first red which happened after 10 when a Porsche with stupid alloys ended up in the gravel. Like an idiot I set things up how I left them at Goodwood (fully stiff front and fully stiff rear) and took some laps to get settled and then found myself behind a stripped out ford that was being driven by an old school friend who used to race karts professionally. Of course I couldn’t hold back and started pushing things on lap 5…
Practising trailing the brake and loving the rotation I was getting from the rear I suddenly found myself almost fully sideways at corner exit of graham hill heading for the grass and barrier, saved it (just) and decided to call an end to session one. In hindsight it was obvious my 12 day old rear AR1’s take a bit longer to warm up and fully stiff probably wasn’t the best settings to start the day on. Was annoyed as I like to start things slowly and this knocked my confidence. Posted the video on TrackTime and got a comment from Mr Cook so not all bad..
Gave myself a tea break and dropped the spring rate 3 clicks on the rear before going back out, let the tyres warm up properly and got into a rhythm. Slowly upped the stiffness before settling one click off hard by the end of the day, loving the setup though as I now have almost zero understeer however it is very aggressive!
It was a very busy in the morning with a lot of newbies in fast cars, the worst type when you are in a Clio however everyone was decent and watching their mirrors. At 3pm half the paddock went home and had 2hrs of about 10 cars on the track as the sun set, absolute bliss. Found myself having a good battle with two race spec mini’s, both of which where probably 1/2s a lap quicker but with traffic I could keep up, video below:
Didn’t get time to speak to the guy after but sent him a message with a link to the clip, he gave me a ring and was over the moon with the footage, learnt that it was running 300bhp with a gripper diff so its no surprise I was getting destroyed out of clearways! Finished the call with him trying to convince me to come racing but will leave that for another post.
____
Managed a gearbox (4k) and engine oil (2k) change yesterday, very satisfying as both looked clean with no evidence of synchro’s present, gearbox feels silky smooth again. Having my last 2 AR1’s put on so that I can put the 3 day old fronts on the rear and prevent another incident. I have Snetterton a week tomorrow with hopefully some tuition and an afternoon with a few mates (first time) in the hire cars as I want to do a few passenger rides / tuition for them.
Had intentions to have a v6 box fitted by this point but have instead focussed on mounts by adding the following:
- Black gearbox mount
- Black upper torque mount
- Road/track dog bone
Also replaced the front brakes with ds1.11 again, they had done well but had reached 3mm on one side so needed doing. Annoyingly had to wait 2 weeks before I could bed them in as I refused to get involved with the petrol madness and was completely empty after the last track day.
With a view to take track driving a bit more seriously I have joined the camber and combustion academy which I strongly recommend if you (like me) want to learn the fundamentals of driving fast and car control (also offer video reviews of sessions which is very valuable)
I also got in contact with Mike Epps (ex BTTC and Clio cup) who was one of the instructors at the TO Snetterton day to see if he offers one to one tuition, which he does. Wanted more time as I always feel 20 minutes can only improve you so much, pencilled in my next two days to have two half days with him.
Had Brands Hatch booked for the 27th but sadly Mike had to cancel due to illness, however I was still excited to try out the new spring rate setup. Dry weather and a good mix of cars in the paddock I waited a few minutes for the first red which happened after 10 when a Porsche with stupid alloys ended up in the gravel. Like an idiot I set things up how I left them at Goodwood (fully stiff front and fully stiff rear) and took some laps to get settled and then found myself behind a stripped out ford that was being driven by an old school friend who used to race karts professionally. Of course I couldn’t hold back and started pushing things on lap 5…
Practising trailing the brake and loving the rotation I was getting from the rear I suddenly found myself almost fully sideways at corner exit of graham hill heading for the grass and barrier, saved it (just) and decided to call an end to session one. In hindsight it was obvious my 12 day old rear AR1’s take a bit longer to warm up and fully stiff probably wasn’t the best settings to start the day on. Was annoyed as I like to start things slowly and this knocked my confidence. Posted the video on TrackTime and got a comment from Mr Cook so not all bad..
Gave myself a tea break and dropped the spring rate 3 clicks on the rear before going back out, let the tyres warm up properly and got into a rhythm. Slowly upped the stiffness before settling one click off hard by the end of the day, loving the setup though as I now have almost zero understeer however it is very aggressive!
It was a very busy in the morning with a lot of newbies in fast cars, the worst type when you are in a Clio however everyone was decent and watching their mirrors. At 3pm half the paddock went home and had 2hrs of about 10 cars on the track as the sun set, absolute bliss. Found myself having a good battle with two race spec mini’s, both of which where probably 1/2s a lap quicker but with traffic I could keep up, video below:
Didn’t get time to speak to the guy after but sent him a message with a link to the clip, he gave me a ring and was over the moon with the footage, learnt that it was running 300bhp with a gripper diff so its no surprise I was getting destroyed out of clearways! Finished the call with him trying to convince me to come racing but will leave that for another post.
____
Managed a gearbox (4k) and engine oil (2k) change yesterday, very satisfying as both looked clean with no evidence of synchro’s present, gearbox feels silky smooth again. Having my last 2 AR1’s put on so that I can put the 3 day old fronts on the rear and prevent another incident. I have Snetterton a week tomorrow with hopefully some tuition and an afternoon with a few mates (first time) in the hire cars as I want to do a few passenger rides / tuition for them.
burrellbloke
Paid Member
LiamP
Paid Member
Snetterton 08/11/21
Been playing catchup with life since this so a bit slow on this update.
Overall a very interesting day, had the morning booked with Mike Epps and with the weather looking good and fresh tyres on the front I was excited to try Snetterton again. Chatted setup and the car before heading out for some sighting laps, it became clear that this was going to be a very different type of tuition compared to what I was used to. Mike specialises in race training having just taken Mathew Rees to F4 champion this year!
First session ended quickly after being pushed onto the grass by a Civic spinning at Nelson and rolling backwards across the track, it was here that I learnt hot tyres and mud/grass don’t mix and I ended up going backwards through Bomb Hole...
Quick check of the car before Mike had a go in the Clio to show me some lines and get a some data in the Garmin, this is where things got interesting. I have had a few laps taken around by ‘pros’ but this was something else, by the third corner I felt physically sick, I didn’t realise my car could brake as hard as he was. As he got things up to temp he was talking through what he was doing whilst holding the wheel with minimal inputs. He spoke about how being smooth isn’t going to get you near the edge of what is possible and that you need to find the limit / don’t be scared of adjusting the steering etc mid corner.
By lap two he starting chasing down the race cars, corner exit and straight line almost everyone there on the day was quicker but corner entry and mid corner he was a different league. He started then giving tips on where to position the car to get people to move and be ready to take advantage of mistakes etc. probably not things I am going to do on future Trackdays! See the clip below where he is literally taping on the steering wheel waiting for the race spec / stripped / gripper 1*2 to finally get out of the way….
Overall he loved the car and commented on the setup being ideal, the only thing he would change is the rear pressures to get things more lively but that would come at a cost of drive-ability. Here is a quick screenshot of the data from Brundle where you can see how he brakes later, harder and longer but gains a big chunk of time.
The rest of the morning was spent trying to match his lines and inputs with the focus being on being progressive whilst finding the grip limits. One thing I am guilty of is gripping the wheel too tightly, it was amazing the difference this made to the handling of the car, certainly something I need to practise and get used to.
I learnt a hell of a lot and was looking forward to putting into practice in the afternoon, however after two very short sessions that where ended by red flags a McLaren touched the grass and wrote itself and about 20m of barrier off with it on the exit to Williams. This ended the day early which was frustrating but then thankful the driver was ok and it wasn’t me.
Very happy with the setup now so no geo changes although it is constantly trying to kill me on the roads, Goodwood at the end of this month and a v6 box to try and fit before a potential remap and gearbox rebuild in December….
Been playing catchup with life since this so a bit slow on this update.
Overall a very interesting day, had the morning booked with Mike Epps and with the weather looking good and fresh tyres on the front I was excited to try Snetterton again. Chatted setup and the car before heading out for some sighting laps, it became clear that this was going to be a very different type of tuition compared to what I was used to. Mike specialises in race training having just taken Mathew Rees to F4 champion this year!
First session ended quickly after being pushed onto the grass by a Civic spinning at Nelson and rolling backwards across the track, it was here that I learnt hot tyres and mud/grass don’t mix and I ended up going backwards through Bomb Hole...
Quick check of the car before Mike had a go in the Clio to show me some lines and get a some data in the Garmin, this is where things got interesting. I have had a few laps taken around by ‘pros’ but this was something else, by the third corner I felt physically sick, I didn’t realise my car could brake as hard as he was. As he got things up to temp he was talking through what he was doing whilst holding the wheel with minimal inputs. He spoke about how being smooth isn’t going to get you near the edge of what is possible and that you need to find the limit / don’t be scared of adjusting the steering etc mid corner.
By lap two he starting chasing down the race cars, corner exit and straight line almost everyone there on the day was quicker but corner entry and mid corner he was a different league. He started then giving tips on where to position the car to get people to move and be ready to take advantage of mistakes etc. probably not things I am going to do on future Trackdays! See the clip below where he is literally taping on the steering wheel waiting for the race spec / stripped / gripper 1*2 to finally get out of the way….
Overall he loved the car and commented on the setup being ideal, the only thing he would change is the rear pressures to get things more lively but that would come at a cost of drive-ability. Here is a quick screenshot of the data from Brundle where you can see how he brakes later, harder and longer but gains a big chunk of time.
The rest of the morning was spent trying to match his lines and inputs with the focus being on being progressive whilst finding the grip limits. One thing I am guilty of is gripping the wheel too tightly, it was amazing the difference this made to the handling of the car, certainly something I need to practise and get used to.
I learnt a hell of a lot and was looking forward to putting into practice in the afternoon, however after two very short sessions that where ended by red flags a McLaren touched the grass and wrote itself and about 20m of barrier off with it on the exit to Williams. This ended the day early which was frustrating but then thankful the driver was ok and it wasn’t me.
Very happy with the setup now so no geo changes although it is constantly trying to kill me on the roads, Goodwood at the end of this month and a v6 box to try and fit before a potential remap and gearbox rebuild in December….
LiamP
Paid Member
Started work on the v6 box, very ambitious as I need the car for Monday. Happy with the battery location as it’s out of the way and FIA legal.
Bit the bullet and stripped the loom back in the engine bay and shamelessly copied @burrellbloke and @EthanMenace with the fuse box location. Need to extend the large red cable as it’s about an inch too short and it should be complete.
Bit the bullet and stripped the loom back in the engine bay and shamelessly copied @burrellbloke and @EthanMenace with the fuse box location. Need to extend the large red cable as it’s about an inch too short and it should be complete.
EthanMenace
Paid Member
Looking good, we shamelessly copied @RSRowe on that fusebox location
What airbox fitting plate have you gone for?
What airbox fitting plate have you gone for?
EthanMenace
Paid Member
