Finally Bilstein B14 for 197/200!

ASTs for the Clio is a really focused kit, the difference to the stock setup is massive however it comes with a compromise, ride that is. DFV technology solves this, that suspension is pure magic and if the price is around £2k then it will be such a bargain.

Which ASTs did you have on your subaru Chris?
 
I've seen Madeno recently have added a load of bilstein options and also some others - which sounds now like ohlins.

What's the rear setup on all these new options though, separate coil to damper or actual coilover?

What's the view on needing reinforcement for the upper mounting on a rear coilover setup too? The cup racers and R3's of course have a cage which goes to this point.

I want a seperate coil to damper anyway - but only because I have to retain original spring position in the series I want to compete in.
 
AST do coilover at the back Rich, same with the Ohlins according to what I've read. No issues in regards to upper mounting, I've got mine for more than 2 years no problems at all:smile:
 
Good to see you have had decent usage without issue. Yeah I knew the ast's were rear coilovers but as they are more a motorsport application was half expecting mostly caged cars with them. Forgot you had them!

Can't fit rear coils anyway as that puts you in mod prod as far as the MSA year book is concerned. Could try and chance it!
 
gaz said:
99% sure these will be like standard set up. They are on the mk2. So like KW V1
Click to expand...

These Bilsteins - if it is a seperate spring, look to be soft then at the rear. The motion ratio of seperate dampers to springs means you need to go for a higher spring rate so you get the right wheel rate.

These are the rates for the 200 below, in each case the rear is stiffer:

200 Standard Springs

Front: 144.5 lb/in 25.3 n/mm
Rear: 215 lb/in 37.6 n/mm

200 Cup Springs

Front: 224.8 lb/in 39.4 n/mm
Rear: 260 lb/in 45.5 n/mm

Eibach
Front: 27-45N/mm
Rear: 32-54N/mm

HR
Front: 37N/mm
Rear: 53N/mm

The rear being stiffer is because the motion ratio is not 1:1 like it is at the front. It's probably something like 1.5:1, so if you divide the rear rates by 1.5, as I understand it that is indicitive to the wheel rate. So the rear is effectilvey softer but the higher spring rate will balance it somewhat.

Now if you look at AST where the rear is a proper coilover then it's 1:1. The rates on the track setup are 100Nm front and 110Nm rear. - This is a genuinley stiffer rear - that's because it is what you want on a fwd track car.

So going back to the Bilsteins, if they are standard location, I would expect to see a higher spring rate on the rear??? Otherwise with the motion ratio factor this setup is actually making the rear software in comparison to the front vs OEM.....
 
nicknameless said:
Let me know what you can do mate. Looks like Chris will have a set too?
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gaz said:
100% up for this

so thats X3, dont let us down guys


best price ;-) ;-)
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I can do a group buy price of £730 delivered which is very good value as our online price is well in under retail. Won't be making much at all tbh but it'll be good to get some decent feedback.

I'll post a discount code later on. Not looking for a minimum number on this.
 
Chris_200CUP said:
You'd expect a company of bilsten to produce a decent suspenion kit to be fair.
Click to expand...

I am a Bilstein fan boy don't get me wrong, and I am certainly not knocking the product or saying it is not decent. Bilstein dampers are quality items, I've had them before.

I am trying to understand the product first though to see if it is suitable for my intended application. I don't make changes to my car without a well researched decision process first. I wouldn't be changing the Cup suspension on my car for anything that wasn't further track biased, so a softer comparative rear end is no good for me. I am simply at the learning and gathering info stage hence my queries really. But I've been so engaged with engine stuff latley my suspension book hasn't even got past the contents page!!
 
Fernandez said:
I can do a group buy price of £730 delivered which is very good value as our online price is well in under retail. Won't be making much at all tbh but it'll be good to get some decent feedback.

I'll post a discount code later on. Not looking for a minimum number on this.
Click to expand...

Fantastic. Will more than likely order this week.
 
TB Rich said:
These Bilsteins - if it is a seperate spring, look to be soft then at the rear. The motion ratio of seperate dampers to springs means you need to go for a higher spring rate so you get the right wheel rate.

These are the rates for the 200 below, in each case the rear is stiffer:

200 Standard Springs

Front: 144.5 lb/in 25.3 n/mm
Rear: 215 lb/in 37.6 n/mm

200 Cup Springs

Front: 224.8 lb/in 39.4 n/mm
Rear: 260 lb/in 45.5 n/mm

Eibach
Front: 27-45N/mm
Rear: 32-54N/mm

HR
Front: 37N/mm
Rear: 53N/mm

The rear being stiffer is because the motion ratio is not 1:1 like it is at the front. It's probably something like 1.5:1, so if you divide the rear rates by 1.5, as I understand it that is indicitive to the wheel rate. So the rear is effectilvey softer but the higher spring rate will balance it somewhat.

Now if you look at AST where the rear is a proper coilover then it's 1:1. The rates on the track setup are 100Nm front and 110Nm rear. - This is a genuinley stiffer rear - that's because it is what you want on a fwd track car.

So going back to the Bilsteins, if they are standard location, I would expect to see a higher spring rate on the rear??? Otherwise with the motion ratio factor this setup is actually making the rear software in comparison to the front vs OEM.....
Click to expand...

Been looking a little more at spring rates, interestingly the other 'road' based coilover options are also equal spring rates. I have been doing minimal reading (for now at least) on suspension design and geometry, because the suspension designs front to rear are vastly different, each end will respond differently to lowering with respect to springs rates and roll centres. So, maintaining the same % balance front to rear after lowering is not a simple case of making sure the rear is still x% more than the front was before - even factoring in motion ratios.

What this means is the road based coilover setups may not be disproportionately 'soft' are the rear.
Still worth noting however that the KW Clubsport which also uses a seperate damper and spring platform (and therefore motion ratio factor) does still use a higher spring rate at the rear. So I would still class the B14 kit as road based setup for sure (as if the front spring rate wasn't a big enough clue!!)

KW Clubsports:
Front: 70N/mm
Rear: 80N/mm
(60N/mm helper springs front and rear)

KW V1 & V3
Front: 50 n/mm
Rear: 50 n/mm

H&R Coilovers
Front: 80 n/mm
Rear: 80 n/mm

I think this Billie kit with 60N/mm and quality mono-tube dampers is probably the kit to go for, and I'll await Fernandez's info that stiffer rear springs may come later :smile:
 
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