197 engine into a 172

[kitt]

Hello.

Ive recently sold a cup 197 engine which a lad has had put into his 172.

The engine ran fine in the 197 before it was removed.

The lad is struggling with its idle.

He says he has used his 172 ecu and the injectors from the 172.

A so called tuner cant find out why its overfuelling badly on idle and has suggested that the cam timing is out on this engine ive supplied.

The engine was never touched in any way and worked fine in the clio 197 before its removed.

Any technical peeps on here that can shed some light?

Ive said he needs to run either the 197 ecu or have the existing 172 ecu mapped if it can be.

advice would be appreciated.

Cheers

George

 

[ben_r1]

You can't just plug a 172 ecu into a 197 and expect it to run!

The two systems ate completely different, and there are quite a few differences in engines.

Suprised to hear it fitted though, the manifold sits much higher and wider on the 197. How'd he clear the bulkhead?

 

[kitt]

Well to be honest I was suprised, Hes adamant that the engines are identical and its just the ecu and manifold that gets the extra power. I said I believed that the 197 head andd cams would be different to a 172 as theres no way an ecu can find an extra 25horses.

Is the ecu mappable in the 172 at all? as i believe this will be the lads only way round it.

Cheers for the advice any more would be appreciated.

George

 

[ben_r1]

Engine has different cylinder head, pistons and crankshaft for higher compression, larger valves and larger bores in the head, different cams and as stated different manifolds. To be honest its just the block that it shares. Even on that there are small differences like the oil filter heat exchanger etc.

I'm not an engine mapper so couldnt tell you if it could be remapped to suit, i'd doubt it though as the 197 runs twin cats and im assuming he's bolted the 182 system to it. All the sensors must be screaming at eachother! I'd go for a 197 retrofit or standalone.

 

[N0ddie]

Tbh kitt you've sold the guy a working engine and he's tried to get it to work outside of its normal operating window thus its his fault if it aint working.

Like Ben has said. There aint many similarities with the 172 and 197 engines so to "plonk" it in and expect it to work he's dreaming.

 

[Foxspeed]

172 = cam phasing only

197 = varible cam phasing

so yeh the cam timing can be out via an ecu not designed to run it surely!!!

the 197 fuel system is a no-return system is the 172?

you would think that the 172 ecu would "under-fuel" as that engine produces less power and therefore requires "less" fuel...

 

[cockers]

Block is different as well as coolant pump is in different place , run by cam belt on 197 and run by auxillary belt on 172.
They run different maps as well , as been said already about th vvt ,
What engine loom did he use ? 197 or 172 ?
Assume 172 as he has his ecu?

 

[stevp197]

think you found your answer george, unless he was going to put it straight into anything but a 197 then he would have needed more than the engine for it to run

 

[Surrey-Paul]

from when i did a bit researching on 197 injectors, 172 injectors flow a lot less compared to 197, so I don't know why he would fit this engine if not for it's extra power
Bu then throttle everything back down by fitting lower spec. parts and as mentioned you'd need the 197 ECU & loom/sensors, not just for timing but also for the fuel maps and why his tuner doesn't know this is a bit worrying

 

[chris_786]

Flol at people. No such thing as plug and play with an engine swap. Also what 'tuner' is he using? Can't be one of the RS specialists surely?

 

[Willis]

George, send him a glass of Shut The Hell Up.

You provided him with a working engine, not your fault he's got no idea what he's gotten himself into.

 

[newman90]

if its a 197 engine.. with 197 injectors, timing etc.. then its going to need a fecking 197 ECU modified for his car to run the engine.. cant just bang and engine in a car that is completely different, wire it up on a ecu which is mapped for a different engine and expect it to work? or is it just me...

 

[Willis]

cant just bang and engine in a car that is completely different, wire it up on a ecu which is mapped for a different engine and expect it to work? or is it just me...

Well I reckon if I dropped a V8 in Nicole then it'd run fine and be mega economical using the 197 ECU as it'd only be running half the cylinders and the injectors would only be running at about 1/5th of their capacity. Might have to lose some of the interior to fit it in though...

 

[Surrey-Paul]

Well I reckon if I dropped a V8 in Nicole then it'd run fine and be mega economical using the 197 ECU as it'd only be running half the cylinders and the injectors would only be running at about 1/5th of their capacity. Might have to lose some of the interior to fit it in though...

Why stop at a V8 you could always see if BMW would sell you one of those V16 lumps they got sitting around, although for front engine install you may be sitting in the boot

 

[Paul]

Why stop at a V8 you could always see if BMW would sell you one of those V16 lumps they got sitting around, although for front engine install you may be sitting in the boot

So stick the engine in the boot

OP - I really wouldn't worry about it, if he dropped it in a 197 and it wouldn't run correctly then I could sympathise, but it isn't designed to be in a 172 so there are going to be massive issues as has been said. I can think of a dozen engines he would have been better off trying given the work any swap will require!

 

[Surrey-Paul]

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...or-200-engine-fit-in-a-182-and-if-not-why-not

worth a read and gearbox mating appears to be an issue as well that requires modification