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Acceptable reply?

Mark

Look at it from my point of view and please try to understand where I am coming from..

I pay over £300 a month for a performance Renault vehicle. I’ve been complaining of a problem for over a year now that has completely changed the way the car drives. I’ve had dealerships agree that there is a knock but have yet been unsuccessful in finding it. Nobody agrees that the car doesn’t drive right, they just hone in on the word “knock”.

I live 30 miles from yourselves and any other dealership. Continuously driving too and from a dealership at a cost to myself, to then spend anything from a day to a week in a base model Clio and then receive my car back in no better state of repair is becoming nothing but expensive and tedious. I feel like I have been going round and round in circles for months.

I don’t see how anything I have done has “muddied” the water. It’s not like I've had the rack or any substantial part removed? If anything, me being able to put the car on a ramp and find an issue within 10 minutes just highlights an incompetency within your workforce.

I bought a car with warranty so if issues were to arise they are found and fixed efficiently. I do not believe a year of driving too and from various dealerships to try and get a problem sorted is efficient do you?

If you are refusing to accept that I've highlighted the issue you have been looking for and are no longer willing to continue the repair process, please advise me in your escalation/complaints procedure.
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I wouldn't send that. Calling them incompetent is not going to help things, even if they plainly are. Stick to what you are entitled to via the warranty and use that as leverage.

Under the terms of the warranty who can make a diagnosis of a fault? Renault dealership only?

Have they admitted there is a fault with the car that is warrantied, even if exact diagnosis escapes them? Do both dealer and renault UK recognise that?

If the answer to the above is yes and yes I would be making the case that they have admitted that there is a warrantied fault but have been unable to diagnose and repair, having been given more than ample opportunity. I would then ask them and renault UK what they plan to do about this in the short term and express your expectations very clearly in respect of that (resolution of the fault within a specified realistic time frame, calling on the expertise of a different dealer if need be as you have lost confidence in the current dealership to rectify).

Then give a statement of what course of action you will take if this is not resolved to your satisfaction within a reasonable timeframe (e.g. inform trading standards, escalate to dealer principal?, escalate to whomever in renault uk, and ultimately small claims if you need to repair yourself inside warranty?).

Simply put;

What are you contractually entitled to via the warranty?
What have they not done in relation to that?
What do you expect from here?
What will you do if they don't deliver what you expect?
 
p.p.s. remain polite in your correspondence and if possible copy in someone whom the recipient may be answerable to (dealer principal and renault uk?).
 
marshall said:
They do not accept there is an issue with my car.

This is the problem.
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But carrying out 'fixes' on the car is an implicit acknowledgement of a fault, as is identifying a knock, unless non-descript knocks are common to all 200s?

Unless they've consistently handed back the car saying there is no fault AND no abnormal knock signalling an underlying issue, without carrying out any remedial work, then in my eyes they have acknowledged the existence of an issue.

I would be going above the service manager within the dealership and copying renault uk into everything, or just focusing on renault uk.

Have they admitted there is a knock? Have they said whether that is normal?
Have they carried out any attempted remedial work? If so, why did they do that if there is no issue?

You're banging your head against a brick wall with the service manager. Document your case, including what they have admitted to and what work they have carried out for what reason, outline the fact the knock is still there (use the independent report if need be but ideally if you have something in writing from the dealership admitting the knock), state what you expect to happen and by when (fixing of knock? by another dealership?), and then most importantly what you will do if this doesn't happen.

Unless they (the dealership) think there will be any consequences then you'll get nowhere faster.
 
Thanks for the advice Nicknameless. Invaluable.

Now to find who the Service Manager reports to and an email address for Renault UK. These people are a nightmare to get hold of.
 
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marshall said:
Thanks for the advice Nicknameless. Invaluable.

Now to find who the Service Manager reports to and an email address for Renault UK. These people are a nightmare to get hold of.
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mate just be persistent and polite - absolutely infuriating and shouldn't happen but got to play the game and put them in a corner.

If you haven't got it or done it I would document every visit, all correspondence with the dealership especially any that mentions or admits to a knock, or underlying issue, and any work they have carried out.

As a statement of intent I would estimate your time and expense.

Then put all this together in a formal letter outlining the history, proving the (implicit or explicit) acknowledgement of an issue by the dealership, backed up by the independent report if you have it / need it.

End with a statement of what you would like them to do by when.

Then a statement of your course of action if that doesn't occur (complaint within dealership / renault UK, then if no satisfactory ourcome trading standards and / or threat of small claims action against the dealership / warranty).

Or you may want to sidestep this dealership and make the request direct to Renault UK to sort out somewhere else using the same information.

Best of luck with it.
 
Does anyone on here have the customer service principal details for Renault UK to help Marshall out? Might as well cut out the middle men / women?
 
Sorry to hear you are still having problems with this!
Out of interest, how much would it cost to fix the problem from your own pocket?
Thinking about the opportunity cost of not driving your Clio in a 'good state' and not being able to fit your coilovers isn't ideal :worried:

I admire your persistence, keep fighting with them until they fix it! I would have given in by now haha
 
What on earth is this ''manager'' on about? He can't be serious surely...

Either because they don't want to, or they can't - or due to any other ridiculous reason - rectify the problem on your car, doesn't mean that you can not take it to a third party for an independent diagnosis!! This is outrageous. Marshall, mate, I think you have been very soft with them.

For starters, you can take your car to every single specialist/non specialist registered garage in the universe and your warranty would be still valid! Secondly, your car is still under warranty! Which means that....eeeeer....it is covered by the official Renault 3 years warranty. Which as a result suggests that eeer...whatever happens to your car is going to get sorted....free of charge...by the damn dealers either they want it or not!!!!!

I seriously can't get my head around it! So has the guy refused to deal with you? Fine, prepare your case thoroughly, have everything in front of you, call Renault UK and present your case, send them the appropriate documents and in a polite way let them know that you are going to escalate this issue to Trading Standards or even claims court, not only asking for your LY beastie to get sorted but for an extra beefy compensation as well!

They haven't got anything to support their case mate! Where can they be based on??? To the fact that you took your car to a specialits(s) for an extra opinion? And what did the specialist do? Damage the car on purpose? This is a joke! The local garage carried on warranty work on mine for god's sake!

On a parallel note, have you tried another dealer?
 
All fun and games :smile:

Got a reply. I see his point. Im interfering whilst a case is open. However, its been another month (a cost of another monthly payment of £324), if im concerned that they are taking too long to investigate a problem with the steering that could potentially be life threatening, i'll take someone up on the offer of having a look.

Why its taking so long to notice that the knocking is coming from the rack i dont know.

They seem to hone in on the word "knock" when driving, not the actual feel of the steering. They are completely oblivious to the indirect, numb feeling to the handling of the car. Blind to the dead spot when going straight. Unaware of the way it wanders around when tracking straight or even mid corner..

Got a reply.

Mr Marshall,
I have replied to your points below in bold text:

Mark,

Thank you for your email but I find your aggressive nature rather unsettling.

• I currently have little or no voice following a throat infection or else I would have called you to discuss your email in person, sometimes tone can be difficult to judge in email but I can see nothing aggressive in my email, only a presentation of the facts surrounding your car.


The car is my pride and joy, a car that costs me a lot of money but the joy is being taken out of it because of the continuous problems with it. It is a car that I don't feel safe driving anymore. I have dealt with many dealerships, but, upon Renault UK’s recommendation, came to you as you are a “RenaultSport Specialist” and now over a year later we seem to be no further ahead.

• We have only seen the car to replace the slave cylinder in June 2011 and then again to look into the steering noise in October 2012. A noise you were unable to demonstrate despite spending a considerable amount of time with you listening for it. It was left for you to monitor the problem and bring it back when you could reproduce the fault. To say we are no further ahead a year later is unfair, firstly as we have not been working on the car for a year and secondly as we have already affected one repair advised by Renault and were preparing to carry the second repair. If this new repair fails to resolve the issue we will go back to Renault until we have resolved the problem. That was always the intention once I had experienced the fault with you that evening. It is sometimes time consuming creating the reports, assembling the necessary parts and finding workshop space and courtesy car availability all of which may seem to you that we are not progressing your complaint. Nothing could be further from the truth and it is disappointing that you have chosen to slant what has happened to create an inaccurate reflection.

I have sought the knowledge of other people because I am sure the car has a fault that you have said many times isn't there. The waters haven't been 'muddied' at all. It has not been taken apart and badly put back together. That is an accusation that I find very unfair and tantamount to slander.

• After you contacted me in February to say you had taken the car to 519 Automotive who had told you the column was slipping almost as if the wheel wasn’t attached, I immediately made a short notice booking to get your car checked for safety and then spent a considerable amount of my own time in the evening driving around in the car with you to try to experience the fault and to demonstrate to you that some of the issues were normal by showing you a new Clio 200. As we progress through what Renault ask to do we have to confident that what we have already checked on a previous inspection is as it was when we last worked on it. With other people removing parts and inspecting the car we can’t be sure what has been done and so we have to check everything all over again. I haven’t said it has been badly put back together at all, but we are responsible for the reports we send to Renault and if the problem resulted in a Technical inspection from Renault we would be liable if something somewhere in the steering assembly was not as we had reported it due to it being removed elsewhere.

Whilst I appreciate the hire cars that are given to me while you are fault finding, I don't spend over £300 a month to drive a 1.2 Clio. The dealership is over a 60 mile round trip and these trips cost me a lot of money in time and fuel and we are no further along in fixing the fault. Now it seems like you don't even want to try and fix the issue and are looking for a way to wash your hands of me, using any excuse you can.

• The distance you live from us is something I can’t change and the suggestion we didn’t want to fix your car is completely contradictory given the effort I have personally put in with you to try to push this to a resolve for you. I specifically asked you not to take the car anywhere else and to let us carry out our process by referring back to Renault. Whilst I appreciate that this may be frustrating for you, it is the only way to both ensure we apply the correct repair procedure for you and also to ensure we as a dealership will be reimbursed by Renault for the cost of the repairs.

If you are no longer willing to perform warranty work on my vehicle then I will be forced to take legal action and contact the relevant authorities.

• It is not a case of ‘willing’ but if you will not allow us to follow our procedures as I have explained to you on more than one occasion then we cannot continue to process your cars fault with the manufacturer.

• I want to make it absolutely clear that Smiths do not have a problem with repairing your car. We are the best people to do this, and we would dearly like to be in a position to rectify the problem. However, as explained above, we must be able to carry out our investigations/rectifications in the way that Renault UK Warranty Dept demand. Whilst I fully understand your frustration, third party interference that is not authorised by the manufacturer simply serves to build in delays as I have previously stated. This is how it works, and the manufacturer will reserve the right to turn down a warranty claim where non-authorised intervention has taken place.

Whilst this discussion would be easier if I could talk, I hope my email is clear. Please let me know what your intentions are.


Kind regards
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Good Morning Mr Marshall,
Thanks for your email, your understanding and your cooperation. I have watched the video, was the key out of the car at this point, ie was the steering lock on?

Renault have approved the next replacement, I ordered it the other day (Prior to your email) but it is on a back order. Should be here in the next 5 days hopefully.
As soon as it arrives, we will check to make sure it looks correct etc and then I’ll contact you to get you in.

It may be worth speculating on a possible date now to reduce further waiting when the part arrives, if you were to choose a date from Wednesday the 17th onwards that should be ok.

Kind regards
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I replied, asking what was being replaced and when it can go in...got this reply

Mr Marshall,
I have booked the car in for Thursday the 18th of April, with you dropping off the car on the Wednesday evening and collecting a courtesy car.
Renault have asked us to replace the complete power steering column. We will also re-bond the new column to the rack during this procedure.

Just to reiterate the process we are now in, if this does not resolve the issue we will ask Renault which component they would like us to replace next (probably only leaves the rack at that point). This will be ordered and we will replace that component next.

Kind regards
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I see what they are doing. If they make judgement, and it doesnt rectify the issue, they foot the bill. If they get instructed by RUK what to replace, and it doesnt fix the issue, RUK foot the bill, and suggest the next step.

We're getting somewhere.

RUK's sequence of item replacement puzzles me though. RUK have only seen the video the Service Manager recorded from inside the car when we managed to get it to knock. But still replacing the column before the rack? Thats a £1200 part over a £240 part. But hey, this way itll all be new.

No doubt Mark will perform what we did in the video, see its the rack and push RUK for that part too claiming he found it lol.
 
lol this is beyond stupid! I can't believe they are changing the column! The noise is mechanical and 99.9% it is the rack. What on earth are they on about?

Much better for you thought mate, new column and rack:smile: And then KWs, and then loooads of fun!!
 
poor diagnosis process all this - its what happens when you deal over the phone...obviously renault have no faith in the dealers to make the right call which i find odd!!!!

to diagnose correctly the rack needs checking independantly of the sterring column but this must seem to escape them....wonder if by "gluing" the column shaft they hope to remove any potential radial wear of the pinion bearings?

whatever they do they should have spent a couple of hours dropping the subframe and fully checking the rack...but what do i know :lol:
 
Im an aircraft engineer, im no mechanic, but im not stupid. Even I can tell its the rack. (Well i hope...what if after all this the car is normal afterall? ha)

Renault are strange lol.

But, this is progress...which i wasnt expecting after that email saying they weren't to proceed any further.
 
marshall said:
Im an aircraft engineer, im no mechanic, but im not stupid. Even I can tell its the rack. (Well i hope...what if after all this the car is normal afterall? ha)

Renault are strange lol.

But, this is progress...which i wasnt expecting after that email saying they weren't to proceed any further.
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it is so hopefully it will be sorted shortly just before its out of warranty :thumbup1:

just a pity its taken an excessive amount of time :poke:
 
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