Tyres and winter.

[NickD]

This may seem to be an obvious public service statement but given the number of Renault Sport cars turning up on Copart and other salvage sites and even a recent post on this forum, since the first real crap bit of Autumn weather I thought it is a timely reminder to have a good look at your tyres.
As we go into the colder months the roads are going to be far wetter than has been though this lovely summer. Even if it has not rained it highly likely that roads are doing to be damp and greasy.
The tread on a tyre serves two purposes on a metalled road. The first is to provide an escape route for the water that would otherwise build up under the tyre and the second is to allow the rubber to move around and become compliant allowing it to grip the mechanical features of the road. The tyres that you have happily been bombing round the country on all summer long can have all the Michelin, Yoko, Goodyear writing on the sidewall that you like, but if they are worn out , near the wear bars of just plain shagged then come the first slippy road, roundabout or corner it is likely to get emotional.
The same is true for the type of tyres. Budget tyres may seem like a sensible option because "you don't have the money" but on cars that were designed as performance cars, cars that are faster than the average car of the time and ones designed to tax the limit of grip, then putting tyres like Three-A, Accelera, Barum, T1R's and anything that sounds Chninglish is likely to have your car featuring on the Copart website in the near future. You don't have to spend Michelin money to have decent tyres, Hankook, Kumho, Nexen and on and on, all make decent tyres that will see you OK, Triangle, and Membat don't. If your tyres say something like this on them, likelihood is you won't!

 

[lewishunter98]

+1 for what you said about the type of tyre! Used to just have cheap tyres on my old cars, had T1R's on the clio when i bought it and had a scary moment in the wet, bought michelins and never looked back. Never realised how much of a difference just having decent road tyres would make! People always say it, but it is the only contact patch with the road

 

[mr angry]

Yes, cheapo ditchfinders may seem like a bargain when cash is tight but not worth the hassle. I also used to buy part worn brands like michelin etc but my missus wrote of her jcw mini a couple of months ago and it was a michelin tyre on the rear that gave way on a bend. It transpires that the tyre was 16 years old....the car wasnt even that old and can only assume previous owner had a part worn fitted before buying the car.

I have just put 4 new unroyal rainsports on her 197 for just over £200 from camskill. I know these tyres may not give the same mileage as others but their wet grip is superb.

 

[Jimmy]

Great posts and a good discussion thread.

As Lewis says, this is literally the only part of your car that's on the road, so why people fit cheap/shit tyres is beyond me. And more so on a performance car. Although, to be honest, on any car it's a bad idea - you don't have to be going silly speeds to lose control on a poor road surface.

I think that too many car owners have so little idea about maintaining their cars to at least a minimum standard. We use vans daily at work and it's our responsibility to check them for road-worthiness - it baffles me how many staff don't know how to check tyre tread depths, or even pressures... And all of them own cars!

 

[Johnny 99]

Yeagh, interesting topic. I don't understand why you would put really cheap tyres on such a car. There are perfectly acceptable mid range tyres available if you're on a budget but I like my Michelin PS4. Was also happy with my previous Continental Sport Contac 5, but I think things have moved on a bit now. I'm also a believer in winter tyres. Living in the Scottish Highlands I like the extra security for trips on some of the higher roads in winter. I do get why folk further south don't bother, though the benefits of winter tyres do kick in at 7 degrees Celsius with improved grip & shorter braking distance. Currently running Vredestein Wintrac Extremes on my Clio that I had kicking about in the garage from an Alfa I previously owned & they were the correct size. Really happy with the performance even when pressing on, though I wouldn't use them for track days! They're 9 years old now & have been on through 7 or 8 winters between the two cars. Still plenty of tread & showing no signs of deteriation through storage in my garage.

 

[Dumdum]

My yokes are coming off and uniroyal RainSport3 are being fitted to a set of spare 197 rims for my 200 cup, why skimp on tyres, even my van has four brand new uniroyal rainexperts fitted and even that grips like a good un’

 

[turkie172]

I don't think its just the cheap tyres that are rubbish it's the tread pattern on the more expensive ones the tyre needs bite in the snow and most performance patterns are straight bands great for moving water and the compound providing the grip for braking. I have CONTINENTAL WINTER CONTACT TS83OP when I bought the car the last owner contacted me and for £150 they had two genuine alloys with Winter Contacts 200 miles on them the tyres were £150 each so I took them but after using them for the first time I have to say you need all 4 as the back can come round like you pulled the handbrake in a bend because there is so much grip on the front. Anyway in March I put the sidewall of one out on a pothole while passing a 40ft lorry on a small A road I new it had gone but I had to finish the pass and take the next 3 blind hard bends before I could pull in safely anyway the summer is the time to buy I got 2 for £180 out of Germany and the road service paid £150 to that for the one. Yes you can push on with them but I would use them until the weather averaged 10Deg and swap back. The Eagle F1 tyre after the first 1/4 is gone


Changes to this no snow grip or bite the snow tyres cuts go all the way down I think tyres need tested part worn instead of brand new as some drop off a cliff performance wise after the initial fancy bits wear away and are only there to reduce noise and help performance for the tests which are done by the manufacturer / Importer and not a testing government body.

 

[Big Ben]

I’ve driven on yoko AD08R’s for 18months and recently fitted Uniroyal rainsports to a spare set of wheels for wet trackdays and winter. After 300 miles on the wets I’m done with the rainsports they are truly horrible imo!! Terrible sidewalls and bouncy ride I can’t tolerate them. Have purchased PS4’s which are being fitted Friday. I’m down south and car doesn’t come out much in winter so I’ll keep the rainsports for monsoon trackday conditions!

 

[Johnny 99]

I’ve driven on yoko AD08R’s for 18months and recently fitted Uniroyal rainsports to a spare set of wheels for wet trackdays and winter. After 300 miles on the wets I’m done with the rainsports they are truly horrible imo!! Terrible sidewalls and bouncy ride I can’t tolerate them. Have purchased PS4’s which are being fitted Friday. I’m down south and car doesn’t come out much in winter so I’ll keep the rainsports for monsoon trackday conditions!

You'll find the PS4 are great in the wet Ben. I had no issues with mine when we all went to Spa. I also rate them in the dry. Best all round tyre imho.

 

[Johnny 99]

I don't think its just the cheap tyres that are rubbish it's the tread pattern on the more expensive ones the tyre needs bite in the snow and most performance patterns are straight bands great for moving water and the compound providing the grip for braking. I have CONTINENTAL WINTER CONTACT TS83OP when I bought the car the last owner contacted me and for £150 they had two genuine alloys with Winter Contacts 200 miles on them the tyres were £150 each so I took them but after using them for the first time I have to say you need all 4 as the back can come round like you pulled the handbrake in a bend because there is so much grip on the front. Anyway in March I put the sidewall of one out on a pothole while passing a 40ft lorry on a small A road I new it had gone but I had to finish the pass and take the next 3 blind hard bends before I could pull in safely anyway the summer is the time to buy I got 2 for £180 out of Germany and the road service paid £150 to that for the one. Yes you can push on with them but I would use them until the weather averaged 10Deg and swap back. The Eagle F1 tyre after the first 1/4 is gone
View attachment 130255View attachment 130256

Changes to this no snow grip or bite the snow tyres cuts go all the way down I think tyres need tested part worn instead of brand new as some drop off a cliff performance wise after the initial fancy bits wear away and are only there to reduce noise and help performance for the tests which are done by the manufacturer / Importer and not a testing government body.
View attachment 130257

Yeah, I run PS4 in the summer & my winters once the weather is below 7 Celsius most of the day. Winter tyres lose their snow grip effectiveness once tread is below 3mm. In some European countries where Winter tyres are mandatory they have to have at least 3mm tread. There's at least one European country which insists on 4mm tread in winter but I can't remember which country it is.
I run the Continental TS830P on my daily Merc in winter.

 

[NickD]

Yeah, I run PS4 in the summer & my winters once the weather is below 7 Celsius most of the day. Winter tyres lose their snow grip effectiveness once tread is below 3mm. In some European countries where Winter tyres are mandatory they have to have at least 3mm tread. There's at least one European country which insists on 4mm tread in winter but I can't remember which country it is.
I run the Continental TS830P on my daily Merc in winter.

Winter tyres drop off significantly after 4mm. And like "summer" tyres winter tyres come in good and bad flavors.

 

[Antti O]

In my opinion, if you have freezing tempeatures you should use real winter tyres. Or i dont know how you understand winter. If there is only water raining and plus celsius it is autumn
You cannot use studded tyres in UK, so then you have to buy friction type winter tyres..
If you want best you can buy for winter, i would recommend Hakkapelitta R3.
I know something about winter driving and tyres, because i live in cold part of Finland.

Take a look for Hakkapelitta R3:

https://www.nokiantyres.com/hakkapeliitta-r3

Best regards, Antti / Finland

One photo from my 197 when i drove it in wintertime. It is frozen lake in picture.

 

[NickD]

Guys, I know I have said this before, but do check your cars over.
Since the end of August I have been watching Copart and other salvage sites and I have noticed some trends. Of course it is not an exhaustive survey, but in my view interesting.
Looking at RS Renault's the Clio is definitely the most common car in the appearing. It is nothing like as common as say a Fiesta ST which at any one time there are likely 10 times more. Which is probably due to the availability through finance and other factors to younger drivers. Of the Renaults, the Clio is by far the most numerous. It may be the most popular because it sold in far greater numbers than Megane's or Twingo's or that they are now at a price and availability to put them in the hands of certain drivers. Certainly the 172's and 182's have become the cheap track car of choice. There have been two Twingo Cup's One had front end damage the other was a dealer disposal as it was a non runner. Of the approximately six Megane's two were roll overs but no real trend. The Clio's however of which there have been about thirty of all types can be distinguished by the fact that there have only been three to four that have not been front end damage but, as far as I can recall, all of the 197 / 200 of which there have been about eight have had very similar front end damage. In just the time over Christmas four cars have been disposed of. They have all suffered this sort of damage to a greater or lesser extent. A red 61 plate with just 30K miles went on Christmas Eve with relatively light damage. A 56 plate with more damage than the picture and 59 plate which was missing the OSF wheel and suspension went yesterday and the one pictured below is going soon.
Why is it, in this very brief overview, all front end? There is no way of knowing from pictures if something hit them, but I would put money that it was more to do with running into something.
Looking at the MOT advisories from Jan 2018 for the one in the picture below it lists

• NSF shox misting of oil
• Osr disc pitted and corroded
• Slight play in nsf track rod end
• Slight play in Osf inn rack end

As these were advisory, it is anyone's guess if they got done, but it is human nature to avoid things until you "have to".
I'm not going to conclude what happened. But while these are not fast cars, most German diesels are going to drive away from the lights, but they are still very capable of encouraging you to be doing 80 when probably 50 or 60 is more appropriate. Please do check your brakes work properly, that your tyres grip effectively and that your stopping distance is going to work and that when someone bits are worn, you do something about it of you too could be appearing on the Copart website.

 

[Dmonk197]

Guys, I know I have said this before, but do check your cars over.
Since the end of August I have been watching Copart and other salvage sites and I have noticed some trends. Of course it is not an exhaustive survey, but in my view interesting.
Looking at RS Renault's the Clio is definitely the most common car in the appearing. It is nothing like as common as say a Fiesta ST which at any one time there are likely 10 times more. Which is probably due to the availability through finance and other factors to younger drivers. Of the Renaults, the Clio is by far the most numerous. It may be the most popular because it sold in far greater numbers than Megane's or Twingo's or that they are now at a price and availability to put them in the hands of certain drivers. Certainly the 172's and 182's have become the cheap track car of choice. There have been two Twingo Cup's One had front end damage the other was a dealer disposal as it was a non runner. Of the approximately six Megane's two were roll overs but no real trend. The Clio's however of which there have been about thirty of all types can be distinguished by the fact that there have only been three to four that have not been front end damage but, as far as I can recall, all of the 197 / 200 of which there have been about eight have had very similar front end damage. In just the time over Christmas four cars have been disposed of. They have all suffered this sort of damage to a greater or lesser extent. A red 61 plate with just 30K miles went on Christmas Eve with relatively light damage. A 56 plate with more damage than the picture and 59 plate which was missing the OSF wheel and suspension went yesterday and the one pictured below is going soon.
Why is it, in this very brief overview, all front end? There is no way of knowing from pictures if something hit them, but I would put money that it was more to do with running into something.
Looking at the MOT advisories from Jan 2018 for the one in the picture below it lists

• NSF shox misting of oil
• Osr disc pitted and corroded
• Slight play in nsf track rod end
• Slight play in Osf inn rack end

As these were advisory, it is anyone's guess if they got done, but it is human nature to avoid things until you "have to".
I'm not going to conclude what happened. But while these are not fast cars, most German diesels are going to drive away from the lights, but they are still very capable of encouraging you to be doing 80 when probably 50 or 60 is more appropriate. Please do check your brakes work properly, that your tyres grip effectively and that your stopping distance is going to work and that when someone bits are worn, you do something about it of you too could be appearing on the Copart website. View attachment 130836

very true indeed!!!!

ps can you get parts stripped off these clios? i need a few bits please if you can sell?

(Interior dash radio surround, boot seal rubber....