Strut braces. Are they worth it?

[ZackyGec]

I know the Clio is already very tight but I've been looking at having new strut braces. Rear, front upper and lower. Is it worth it and would people recommend it as it comes to almost £400!!

 

[pacman.]

I have them and they do make the car feel a little bit stiffer.
The ideal test would be to get a car that has them fitted and take it for a test drive.

 

[Chrisgti6]

For a dedicated track car then maybe, but for a daily road car - not really needed in my opinion. It's very rare you would get the occasion to put it to full use.

 

[Rogue]

For a dedicated track car then maybe, but for a daily road car - not really needed in my opinion. It's very rare you would get the occasion to put it to full use.

Roundabouts

 

[Russell]

For a dedicated track car then maybe, but for a daily road car - not really needed in my opinion. It's very rare you would get the occasion to put it to full use.

This... plus there's better options for spending 400£

 

[Fernandez]

I had all the Ultra Racing braces on my car and the difference was incredible. The car was much flatter and much more controlled in the corners and in braking. IMHO the full set is £400 well spent. You'll be faster point to point than 400 spent on an exhaust.

A few months after I fitted collies and powerflex bushes and the combination was perfect.

 

[The ANT]

The upper one is almost dead weight as the tops are so close to the bulkhead they have such a small amount of leverage to create movement, they're effectively braced by the bulkhead. I don't know about the lower or rear ones but the upper front it's function is purely asthetic on these cars unless you're going rallying then every little helps I suppose,

a lad I work with has the ultra racing rear one and reckons its only changed the appearance of the interior

Differences people mention are most probably mostly in the mind. But we all have opinions

 

[Fernandez]

The rear one in the boot does bugger all but the rear arb and front lower are more than just a mind trick. Tested ours before and after at Cadwell when Cazan was running and noticed a huge improvement to the cars handling on the limit

 

[antnee]

ARBs definitely make a difference, I don't think anyone would argue that one. They are a big win on a road car too, as they make it handle better with no detriment to vehicle ride characteristics

 

[Chris]

The 200t needs a stiffer front for sure. It's on my to do list.

 

[The ANT]

I don't know about arb but by handling better, what do you mean? As there is more than one meaning, does it: make the car more predictable, give it more grip thus going faster, or just make it corner faster because of more predictability

 

[Fernandez]

I found they stiffened the chassis up reducing the flex. The car was flatter and faster in the corners.

The car also felt much easier to balance when on the absolute limit of grip. Without the rear arb the rear was very lose when tracking it.

 

[litchy]

Might try the rear Arb.....

 

[TB Rich]

ARBs definitely make a difference, I don't think anyone would argue that one. They are a big win on a road car too, as they make it handle better with no detriment to vehicle ride characteristics

No detrimient to ride quality, well to a point but it will effect it - less than main spring rates though granted.
No detriment to vehicle ride characteristics, certianly not the case - ARB's reduce mechanical grip so on a fwd car you want the smallest at the front you can get away with. In fact you want the smallest ARB's you can away with at all times regardless. They should be used and tuned to adjust the final balance once the correct spring rates and ride height (roll centre) have been chosen.

ARB's are pretty missunderstood and probably why many have installed the Cup ARB only to find it's not great in isolation. When you have a car with one end stiffer in roll stiffness than the other then it will lean on the outside wheel of that end, therefore working that tyre harder and creating a bigger slip angle - hence why fitting the Cup ARB makes an otherwise stock car understeer.
It works on a Cup racer because it's geometry is very different; higher spring rates, lower roll centre and more cruically a much stiffer comparative rear end. I would think even the likes of KW V3 and B14 kits to not work great with the Cup ARB, because it'll likely require something like AST on track springs because it has a similar effective rear wheel spring rate to the front end. - The road going coilover kits all have a rear wheel spring rate that is still too soft for the increased front end roll stiffness of the Cup ARB.

In otherwords, no free lunch with ARB's

 

[The ANT]

No detrimient to ride quality, well to a point but it will effect it - less than main spring rates though granted.
No detriment to vehicle ride characteristics, certianly not the case - ARB's reduce mechanical grip so on a fwd car you want the smallest at the front you can get away with. In fact you want the smallest ARB's you can away with at all times regardless. They should be used and tuned to adjust the final balance once the correct spring rates and ride height (roll centre) have been chosen.

ARB's are pretty missunderstood and probably why many have installed the Cup ARB only to find it's not great in isolation. When you have a car with one end stiffer in roll stiffness than the other then it will lean on the outside wheel of that end, therefore working that tyre harder and creating a bigger slip angle - hence why fitting the Cup ARB makes an otherwise stock car understeer.
It works on a Cup racer because it's geometry is very different; higher spring rates, lower roll centre and more cruically a much stiffer comparative rear end. I would think even the likes of KW V3 and B14 kits to not work great with the Cup ARB, because it'll likely require something like AST on track springs because it has a similar effective rear wheel spring rate to the front end. - The road going coilover kits all have a rear wheel spring rate that is still too soft for the increased front end roll stiffness of the Cup ARB.

In otherwords, no free lunch with ARB's

When you describe it like that its quite obvious really when you think about it, I've just never quite grasped how much and in what aspects the arb effects the car

 

[Rogue]

Might try the rear Arb.....

You track your car?

 

[TB Rich]

No detrimient to ride quality, well to a point but it will effect it - less than main spring rates though granted.
No detriment to vehicle ride characteristics, certianly not the case - ARB's reduce mechanical grip so on a fwd car you want the smallest at the front you can get away with. In fact you want the smallest ARB's you can away with at all times regardless. They should be used and tuned to adjust the final balance once the correct spring rates and ride height (roll centre) have been chosen.

ARB's are pretty missunderstood and probably why many have installed the Cup ARB only to find it's not great in isolation. When you have a car with one end stiffer in roll stiffness than the other then it will lean on the outside wheel of that end, therefore working that tyre harder and creating a bigger slip angle - hence why fitting the Cup ARB makes an otherwise stock car understeer.
It works on a Cup racer because it's geometry is very different; higher spring rates, lower roll centre and more cruically a much stiffer comparative rear end. I would think even the likes of KW V3 and B14 kits to not work great with the Cup ARB, because it'll likely require something like AST on track springs because it has a similar effective rear wheel spring rate to the front end. - The road going coilover kits all have a rear wheel spring rate that is still too soft for the increased front end roll stiffness of the Cup ARB.

In otherwords, no free lunch with ARB's

Just to add more info, have found out the Cup Racer spring rates are 75Nm/mm front, 130Nm/mm rear. So validating the above as to why they can run a 22mm front ARB, and of course people with stock and 'lesser' kits just find understeer.
Also worth noting that the motion ratio on the Cup Racer is 1:1 because it's a (vertical) coilover, where as road based setups with a seperate spring and damper platform will have a motion ratio somewhere between 1.5 & 2:1 (think the Mk2 Clio was measured at 1.6/1.7 - never seen anyone measure the Mk3 rear end). What this means is that the Cup Racers rear wheel rate will be higher than the same rate spring would provide were it in stock position.

 

[VolumeX]

When you say the full strut, are talking about the ones that are mounted underneath (exposed) the car?