Spring Rates & Damper Rebound - Rid me of this dreadful 200 Cup suspension

Hi All, as per the post title. Has anyone come up with a solution to tame the awful damping of the Cup set up, on a 200?

I'm now 1500 miles into my ownership, the last 300 miles being on the usual poor quality tarmac and undulating roller coaster of British B roads. I cannot fault the 200 in the way it grips and steers. It's mighty. The steering rack of the Cup chassis seems great.

My issue is with the constant bouncing and skittering. While on a pretty standard road I was bouncing out of my seat. A passenger in the rear was hitting their head on the headlining.

It seems that the Cup suspension set up is purely for marble smooth tracks. The levels of speed I could previously comfortably carry on these roads in a standard 182 Trophy has decreased by 20-30mph. Even on motorways the 200 Cup set up cannot cope with the smallest of road imperfection.

Would it be worth trying the standard springs and dampers of a 200? I then get the faster steering rack, nice red brake calipers and then perhaps the ability to drive the car at speed and stay in my lovely Recaro.

Or are there other better solutions? I do not want to lower it or stiffen it at all. By backing off the spring rates and fitting a better insert that manages the spring more effectively way more speed could be carried far more comfortably. Or even by maintaining the spring rate and simply fitting a better insert.

All suggestions welcomed.
 
Sounds more like the shocks are gone, how old is it? My 200 Cup was planted over anything but the roughest of roads.
 
Are you maybe referring to the sensation of feeling even the smallest unevenness on the road, which in turn feels quite bumpy?
 
No I know what he means, if you've driven something like an Elise (or my old Rallye on Bilsteins/Eibachs), then you'd understand the Clio 200 Cup approach is to batter the road into submission.

I'd take a look into the Koni kit, [MENTION=4449]steve11[/MENTION] had or still has them. I remember him saying that the dampers when set to soft were more compliant than stock Cup suspension, and of course you could stiffen them up for beyond stock Cup too.
They do come with H&R 30mm springs, however spring rates are about the same as 200 Cup springs and as above, with the adjustable dampers not an issue anyway really.

http://www.larkspeed.com/shopper/i/...cl-F1-Team-excl-Cup-Koni-Sport-Suspension-Kit
 
I've found that the cup set up is better the faster you go.
Also take it for a drive on the German roads near the 'ring. Makes you realise what the suspension was set up for!
 
Save up and get some Bilstein suspension lower the car then see the difference! they work so well. I had the same issue with my cup. With a descent set up the car works much better. I've driven all sort of cars the best set up is a Megane RS. It's the way the suspension operates over bumps. I found the cup was far too skitty specially in the wet! The Billies are not as stiff when your driving slowly but when you really push it the rebound setting sorted which is what you need. They stay stiff. Good luck!
 
More right foot and tell passengers to duck!

How many miles on the car?

I know what you mean about the suspension on very rough undulating poorly surfaced B roads but TBH I think it is generally awesome elsewhere.
 
p.s. if you find the cup suspension bad I would think about non cup set up rather than aftermarket. In my experience I have never had an aftermarket kit that softened things up on any of the cars I've owned.
 

Jimmy

Good cop
I'm coming from a 197 cup point of view, but I have to agree in that I've never found it bouncy or skittish. I've never been bounced out of my seat and some of the roads round me are shocking :smiley:

So yes, perhaps a non-cup set up would be the way to go for you rather than aftermarket.
 
Awful damping? Your joking right lol.

Id say a clio cup is anything but bouncy...
Sadly I'm not joking. I'm bouncing out of my seat at speed. Hitting a road imperfection mid corner unsettles it compared to other great cars I've driven.

Sounds more like the shocks are gone, how old is it? My 200 Cup was planted over anything but the roughest of roads.
2012 on 4,200 miles. The dampers are as new. But I'll double check again to see if there are tell tale signs of oil leaking, but when the wheels were off during a detail all looked fine.

Are you maybe referring to the sensation of feeling even the smallest unevenness on the road, which in turn feels quite bumpy?
Kind of, as the chassis and damping is so stiff small road imperfections bang and skitter through the cabin. Yet at slow (25-30mph) it rides better than my Trophy, the Trophy picks up all the tiny imperfections, but when you turn the heat up the Trophy inspires; while the 200 bounces about. Which, in my view, means it is magnifying the road imperfections the faster you go, making it less compliant in its control.

My first guess would be that its broke not that its a bad setup.
It's too new and straight. As above, I'll check things though.

I've found that the cup set up is better the faster you go.
Also take it for a drive on the German roads near the 'ring. Makes you realise what the suspension was set up for!
Sadly I found the inverse. The faster you push it, on rough B roads, the more out of sorts it becomes. I'd expect it to be amazing on marble smooth roads around the 'ring.

More right foot and tell passengers to duck!

How many miles on the car?

I know what you mean about the suspension on very rough undulating poorly surfaced B roads but TBH I think it is generally awesome elsewhere.
More right foot is fine, but it just becomes tiresome and no fun to drive. It should be stepping up when pushing 100mph, not bouncing about. 4,200 miles on it. I also agree re the B roads and I also think it's awesome elsewhere. But elsewhere isn't fun to drive in my view. I want maximum attack on challenging roads, not nice wide sweeping A roads.

p.s. if you find the cup suspension bad I would think about non cup set up rather than aftermarket. In my experience I have never had an aftermarket kit that softened things up on any of the cars I've owned.
Kind of as I'm thinking. Aftermarket is mostly targeted toward stiffer, lower and the opposite of what I'm looking for.

I'm coming from a 197 cup point of view, but I have to agree in that I've never found it bouncy or skittish. I've never been bounced out of my seat and some of the roads round me are shocking :smiley:

So yes, perhaps a non-cup set up would be the way to go for you rather than aftermarket.
Perhaps you're not driving fast enough : ) I do think the Bilstein might be worth taking a look at.
 
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No I know what he means, if you've driven something like an Elise (or my old Rallye on Bilsteins/Eibachs), then you'd understand the Clio 200 Cup approach is to batter the road into submission.

I'd take a look into the Koni kit, @steve11 had or still has them. I remember him saying that the dampers when set to soft were more compliant than stock Cup suspension, and of course you could stiffen them up for beyond stock Cup too.
They do come with H&R 30mm springs, however spring rates are about the same as 200 Cup springs and as above, with the adjustable dampers not an issue anyway really.

http://www.larkspeed.com/shopper/i/...cl-F1-Team-excl-Cup-Koni-Sport-Suspension-Kit
My 106 Rallye ran standard suspension, not Bilsteins or Eibachs, and was so much more compliant. It couldn't go as fast, overall and around corners as the 200, but when it was wrung out it was wonderful. You've also summed it up, in that it seems to want to batter the road into submission. Which isn't fun for me, passengers or the chassis's longevity. I'll take a look at the Koni's and do some research. I'd rather not have it lowered further as it's a town car too and speed bumps are already a ball ache. It's that compliancy that I seek.

Save up and get some Bilstein suspension lower the car then see the difference! they work so well. I had the same issue with my cup. With a descent set up the car works much better. I've driven all sort of cars the best set up is a Megane RS. It's the way the suspension operates over bumps. I found the cup was far too skitty specially in the wet! The Billies are not as stiff when your driving slowly but when you really push it the rebound setting sorted which is what you need. They stay stiff. Good luck!
Yes, it's the lack of control over the spring that might be the issue. If the rebound was more controlled the tyre would spend the correct amount of time in contact with the road, thus reduce the bouncing, banging and crashing. When you say lower it, I presume you mean by changing the springs as well. I don't want to lower it. Do you know if the Bilstein dampers can be used with the original springs? Or are there standard length springs available that have a lower rating, which would mean the standard cup insert may control the softer spring more effectively?
 

Yiannis197

Paid Member
Yeap, you are right. The cup chassis (especially the 200 cup) is only for smooth roads and track otherwise is all over the place, it becomes even worse when you fit lowering springs, this has always been my argument. Go flat out and if there is a bump while cornering you are gone, unless of course you have great driving skills. And as a stiff chassis does not perform in the wet, 200 cup (and 197) do not excel there either.

You are better off fitting either the 197/200ff dampers and springs (200 ff is even softer) or a good coilover. KW Variant 1 is considered to be a soft setup while retaining the good handling characteristics of the clio. Or maybe the bilstein ones since it's the newish kid in town. I believe it's a brand new kit on for sale section for £600.
 
Interesting thread. My 197 (non - cup) is the best handling car i have owned (had a 172 & 182 previous too), however in standard form the ride is very firm - it reminds me of a lowered car but without the lows.

I recently replaced my shocks and wondered if it would smooth out the ride a little, it didnt.

It doesnt bother me, it bothers my passengers more who sometimes bounce around in their seat and always comment on why is it 'so bumpy'. I put it down to a characteristic of the car, i am not sure i would want to run it on lowering springs and OE shocks.
 
I have a cup and yeah its a little bouncy but that's the character of the car. Not sure my passengers would agree but I don't think it's that bad. Infact I enjoy it. I also think it handles well in any conditions but then I've got decent tires on. If you want a smooth ride get a saloon in my opinion. I don't think sport hatches are for chilling in.
 
Yeap, you are right. The cup chassis (especially the 200 cup) is only for smooth roads and track otherwise is all over the place, it becomes even worse when you fit lowering springs, this has always been my argument. Go flat out and if there is a bump while cornering you are gone, unless of course you have great driving skills. And as a stiff chassis does not perform in the wet, 200 cup (and 197) do not excel there either.

You are better off fitting either the 197/200ff dampers and springs (200 ff is even softer) or a good coilover. KW Variant 1 is considered to be a soft setup while retaining the good handling characteristics of the clio. Or maybe the bilstein ones since it's the newish kid in town. I believe it's a brand new kit on for sale section for £600.
From what I've experienced so far I completely agree with you about mid corner bumps. It's mighty on marble smooth roads, but otherwise just frustrating. I've not driven it in the wet yet, but would expect it to perform as you state. There is only so much great tyres can do. Thanks for the suggestions. I think I may attempt the standard 200 set up first, then the Bilstein. KW would be an outlier for me.
you should live in the fens :bounce: hahaha
Too right.

Interesting thread. My 197 (non - cup) is the best handling car i have owned (had a 172 & 182 previous too), however in standard form the ride is very firm - it reminds me of a lowered car but without the lows.

I recently replaced my shocks and wondered if it would smooth out the ride a little, it didnt.

It doesnt bother me, it bothers my passengers more who sometimes bounce around in their seat and always comment on why is it 'so bumpy'. I put it down to a characteristic of the car, i am not sure i would want to run it on lowering springs and OE shocks.
If you think the 197 non cup is a firm ride please don't go changing to the set up to a cup one. Certainly don't go anywhere near shorter springs. A firm ride is fine, if you get the control and compliance at speed. Character is also acceptable. What I'm disappointed about is how disappointing the 200 cup chassis character is. It was lauded as 'the five star car' in the category by much of the motoring press and public. It's a pity that, in my view, it's not lived up to the billing.

I have a cup and yeah its a little bouncy but that's the character of the car. Not sure my passengers would agree but I don't think it's that bad. Infact I enjoy it. I also think it handles well in any conditions but then I've got decent tires on. If you want a smooth ride get a saloon in my opinion. I don't think sport hatches are for chilling in.
If you enjoy it for what it is, and if it makes you happy that's what counts. Tyres aren't the issue. Nor is seeking a smooth ride. A 182 Trophy isn't what you'd call a saloon in the smooth stakes, but it simply monsters the 200 Cup set up at speed. Destroys it in the ability to manage the road surface with confidence and not bounce you about in your seat like rubber ball.
 
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Does anyone know anything about the springs and dampers fitted to the 197/200 R3? From what I can see in the catalogue the Maxi has a remote reservoir damper, but standard car a pretty normal looking damper. Both are pictured with trick looking solid top mounts on pages 66 and 67. Does anyone know if these inserts can be fitted to standard top mounts and retain the standard spring?

If so it might be a way of creating a 200 Trophy, kind of. Using the racing dampers in the road car. Worth a try.
 
No, R3 Maxi's which use the Ohlins with remote reservoirs won't fit a regular car. The Maxi has almost different everything front and rear, look at the subframe, wishbones and hubs to see major differences.

I've got my eye on an Ohlins remote res setup though, Madeno Racing. If you Google 'Clio Ohlins VLN', you'll see they developed a kit.

Madeno have also got a couple of other Bilstein based options, one is revalved B14's and different spring rates. Another is using higher spec dampers front and rear (full coil rear too). Drop them an email and they'll be able to piece a kit together to suit.
Though I still reckon the Koni option seems like it would be right up your street for a 1/4 of the price. I wouldn't expect any change from 2.5k really for an Ohlins setup.