Police Query
- Thread starter RyanStevo
- Start date
My post was from past experience albeit a bit different circumstances.
Two regular cops accused me of DD and estimated my speed at in excess of 70 in a 30.
Obviously I couldn't accept this and fought it all the way, costing me roughly £1500 for a good road traffic solicitor.
But my point is that the lawyer completely destroyed them in court because they had no material evidence to back up their claims of speeding.
It is simply not true that you cannot challenge the opinions of two cops and win.
At the end of the day though, if you genuinely were being a little bad you should weight up the cost of going to court and winning VS accepting the £100 and the insurance increase for the next 5years.
Two regular cops accused me of DD and estimated my speed at in excess of 70 in a 30.
Obviously I couldn't accept this and fought it all the way, costing me roughly £1500 for a good road traffic solicitor.
But my point is that the lawyer completely destroyed them in court because they had no material evidence to back up their claims of speeding.
It is simply not true that you cannot challenge the opinions of two cops and win.
At the end of the day though, if you genuinely were being a little bad you should weight up the cost of going to court and winning VS accepting the £100 and the insurance increase for the next 5years.
If you "were" speeding take it on the chin, lesson learned. If you'd hit someone then you'd have been banged up for being over the speed limit think of it as a lucky escape.
If you can't afford the fine and points / insurance hike, then you should drive more carefully.
If you wish to contest it and go to court, check what they have on you otherwise you'll be looking at £1000 fine and possibly a ban for wasting the courts time.
If you can't afford the fine and points / insurance hike, then you should drive more carefully.
If you wish to contest it and go to court, check what they have on you otherwise you'll be looking at £1000 fine and possibly a ban for wasting the courts time.
Fernandez
Gold Member
I was driving a very special and very quick BBR RS Turbo, my co-accused were in a Saab Turbo and 4x4 Cossie. They closed the Dartford tunnel (before the bridge existed) and had a fleet of police vehicles waiting for us.. They were not happy, fortunately because we never actually had a police car behind us indicating us to stop we couldn't be charged with failure to stop. We made the local news at the time which was quite embarrassing. I have learned a lesson though...
look out for unmarked cars.. Lol
I was charged with dangerous driving on the say so of 2 members of the public. I paid £3k for a solicitor, because I could not prove other wise, I was convicted. There were no police involved, only 2 members of the public. Luckily for me the charge was dropped to driving without consideration for others, fined £700 and given 6 points, for something I didn't do and could not prove I had not done it. So if you feel you have done nothing wrong, fight it, but be warned, I did fight mine, and lost and I still have to declare for 5 years.
Seen something similar on road wars where some grease monkey year takin a R8 iirc back to a customer.
They couldn't get near him doing a ton + till he eventually backed right off.
They never got close to radar him but he was fooked.
They couldn't get near him doing a ton + till he eventually backed right off.
They never got close to radar him but he was fooked.
Some very good advice on here already, but my take is this...
Sign the form, send it back, pay your fine and forget about it.
They have the right to follow and stop any car they deem fit in the interest of public safety and crime prevention. If you were doing nothing wrong they could still stop you if they wanted to, it was late at night you might have been heading home from a pub or club etc.. It is, at the end if the day, their job. Traffic Police are quota'd to pull 300 cars per month for spot checks, regardless of them saying they don't have quotas, they do. It may have been a case that they were always going to pull you but you may or may not have sped in that time and hence they slapped you with a ticket...
VASCAR, cannot be operated by the driver and so if it has been used and there wasn't two officers present then you could argue it in court as he would be driving without due care and attention. They do not have to provide ANY physical evidence of a driving offence, they do not need to have you on film or video, they do not need to have you on a handgun or anything else. They can use their own speedo to make a very close guesstimate of your speed by following you between any two points from a set distance behind you. VASCAR needs 400M to calculate the data that a good officer could calculate in his head in half of that. It isn't hard to do. They do NOT need to prove the calibration of the speedo in their car, when was the last time the one in your own car was calibrated? Exactly. It doesn't happen. Although rest assured their car will have been checked for accuracy within the last year or so.
I've been there, I took it to court and they gave me 4 Points and £100 fine for something they technically couldn't prove. The problem was, I couldn't prove I wasn't speeding and he had eleventy-thousand years of experience m'lord. In truth, I probably was speeding albeit not by the amount they tried to say but still speeding is speeding. Much like you, it was a 40MPH road that turns into a dual carriageway (50MPH), I saw him at least three cars behind me in traffic and he was clearly looking at my car as he'd pulled out slightly from the line of traffic. I accelerated and he'd overtook the cars behind and me before I knew it and the lights came on. I was stopped for no insurance but on providing him with my insurance certificate he told me "he had to accelerate to catch up to me" which meant I must have been speeding. My argument was the same as yours, of course he had to accelerate if he was behind me, that's sort of how it works to catch up to somebody.
It isn't worth the aggro', pay the fine and think no more about it.
Sign the form, send it back, pay your fine and forget about it.
They have the right to follow and stop any car they deem fit in the interest of public safety and crime prevention. If you were doing nothing wrong they could still stop you if they wanted to, it was late at night you might have been heading home from a pub or club etc.. It is, at the end if the day, their job. Traffic Police are quota'd to pull 300 cars per month for spot checks, regardless of them saying they don't have quotas, they do. It may have been a case that they were always going to pull you but you may or may not have sped in that time and hence they slapped you with a ticket...
VASCAR, cannot be operated by the driver and so if it has been used and there wasn't two officers present then you could argue it in court as he would be driving without due care and attention. They do not have to provide ANY physical evidence of a driving offence, they do not need to have you on film or video, they do not need to have you on a handgun or anything else. They can use their own speedo to make a very close guesstimate of your speed by following you between any two points from a set distance behind you. VASCAR needs 400M to calculate the data that a good officer could calculate in his head in half of that. It isn't hard to do. They do NOT need to prove the calibration of the speedo in their car, when was the last time the one in your own car was calibrated? Exactly. It doesn't happen. Although rest assured their car will have been checked for accuracy within the last year or so.
I've been there, I took it to court and they gave me 4 Points and £100 fine for something they technically couldn't prove. The problem was, I couldn't prove I wasn't speeding and he had eleventy-thousand years of experience m'lord. In truth, I probably was speeding albeit not by the amount they tried to say but still speeding is speeding. Much like you, it was a 40MPH road that turns into a dual carriageway (50MPH), I saw him at least three cars behind me in traffic and he was clearly looking at my car as he'd pulled out slightly from the line of traffic. I accelerated and he'd overtook the cars behind and me before I knew it and the lights came on. I was stopped for no insurance but on providing him with my insurance certificate he told me "he had to accelerate to catch up to me" which meant I must have been speeding. My argument was the same as yours, of course he had to accelerate if he was behind me, that's sort of how it works to catch up to somebody.
It isn't worth the aggro', pay the fine and think no more about it.
Last edited:
Too right
I only got a three month ban and £200 fine for mine in 1993
Paddy_R
Platinum Member
But my sunbeam Ti beat the RS1600i
RS1600i Mmmmmmmm, love those cars. Esp in sunburst red.
When you were stopped they would of issued you a traffic ticket for the offence. This would state what speed you were traveling at. If you were traveling at a high speed eg 60 in a 30 they would caution you, report you for the offence as that would be dealt with in court. You are the only person who knows the speed you were doing, if you know you put your foot down and were not shocked you got stopped I would take the points and fine, you may be offered a driver course instead of the fine/points.
Absolutely spot on!! I'd take it to court - provided you didn't admit anything when under caution!
They have no material evidence! Expert witness or not - their eyes are not calibrated measuring devices!
Get a good solicitor and take their advice!
Paddy_R
Platinum Member
The law of this land disagrees with you on this point. Police can testify to the speed of a vehicle even if they didnt have speed measuring equipment with them at the relevant time. They can use their expertise to judge the speed of the vehicle.
Paddy_R
Platinum Member
In Northern Ireland the laws are contained in different documents and different sections but I believe it's possibly in the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (part vi, section 89) though this only states that you can't be prosecuted based on 1 persons evidence of speed. The two police officers thing has been established via case law over a number of years. Google it, you'll quickly find its true.
Connell 'v' the DPP also comes into play here (assuming the police cars speed was monitored, which they nearly all are).
My advise would be (unless you can afford circa £1500) is to accept the ticket and move on.
Edit: did a search and can't find the specific legislation on the two officers thing (which I know it true) for mainland UK but here a link to Pepipoo who if it wasn't true would be shouting about it not confirming it http://www.pepipoo.com/Basics.htm#Basic_Facts it's in the last paragraph on this page.
Connell 'v' the DPP also comes into play here (assuming the police cars speed was monitored, which they nearly all are).
My advise would be (unless you can afford circa £1500) is to accept the ticket and move on.
Edit: did a search and can't find the specific legislation on the two officers thing (which I know it true) for mainland UK but here a link to Pepipoo who if it wasn't true would be shouting about it not confirming it http://www.pepipoo.com/Basics.htm#Basic_Facts it's in the last paragraph on this page.
Last edited:
I always at least check the tickets now, I got a parking ticket from the police which he claimed to have issued a full hour before I had even arrived, I had a reciept for petrol 35 miles away for that time.
my girlfriend was issued a nip for speeding on an A road which didn't identify the location, so she was clocked doin 57mph but due to them only naming the road it could of been in a 30,40,50 or a 70 mph section, we wrote a letter asking but made sure it was on the 13th day after issue, this meant they couldn't alter the NIP.
rhey went on to send two officers round 2 days later with a new NIP which had been altered to say the exact location which we refused to take, or went to court and it got better, the camera showed out car, then went to another car, then back onto ours the to top it off showed the the central concrete reservation doing 20 odd mph. yep an inantimate fixed concrete object was moving according to the camera, it got kicked straight out of court.
Btw we only took it that far as my gf was adiment she was not speeding at all.
Another time my kid brother was given a court date for supposedly doing 100mph in a 40 whilst in a 4 geared 1980's 1.2 nova saloon, the officer admitted in court that he was travelling in the opposite direction on his own in a non camerad car that had not had it's speedo calibrated anyway. He also went on to lie about my brothers occupation and various other things which we think he got his notes mixed up from another stop on that night
it got kicked out of court due to the fact 1.2 4 geared nova's will never do 100mph ha and the fact the officer screwed up big time.
To me if I've been caught hands down I'd take the points/fine but if there are big glaring errors of at least have a look
my girlfriend was issued a nip for speeding on an A road which didn't identify the location, so she was clocked doin 57mph but due to them only naming the road it could of been in a 30,40,50 or a 70 mph section, we wrote a letter asking but made sure it was on the 13th day after issue, this meant they couldn't alter the NIP.
rhey went on to send two officers round 2 days later with a new NIP which had been altered to say the exact location which we refused to take, or went to court and it got better, the camera showed out car, then went to another car, then back onto ours the to top it off showed the the central concrete reservation doing 20 odd mph. yep an inantimate fixed concrete object was moving according to the camera, it got kicked straight out of court.
Btw we only took it that far as my gf was adiment she was not speeding at all.
Another time my kid brother was given a court date for supposedly doing 100mph in a 40 whilst in a 4 geared 1980's 1.2 nova saloon, the officer admitted in court that he was travelling in the opposite direction on his own in a non camerad car that had not had it's speedo calibrated anyway. He also went on to lie about my brothers occupation and various other things which we think he got his notes mixed up from another stop on that night
it got kicked out of court due to the fact 1.2 4 geared nova's will never do 100mph ha and the fact the officer screwed up big time.
To me if I've been caught hands down I'd take the points/fine but if there are big glaring errors of at least have a look
Yeah I didn't read it properly, and its in small that I was doing 55mph. I'm thinking about contesting still as I can't see how they could of clocked me, and how they could tell how fast I was going when they came flying up behind me so all that proves is that they were driving faster than me? The policeman who issued me the ticket hadn't a clue, it took him 40 minutes to fill the thing out! He hasn't even given me the full document so I can't contest it now, hes only given me section 1 (i think there's 4). So I'll have to mention it at the police station when I provide my documents.
Was it a traffic car or a normal panda, I know if it's a panda they have to follow you for X distance and the cars speedo must have been calibrated either before or after the shift.
I can't even remember it was that late! I'm 90% sure it was a volvo. I don't know if they were following me or if they couldn't catch me, but they only turned the lights on when they were close enough for me to really see me. If they turned them any earlier then maybe they thought they wouldn't of caught me as I was miles ahead..?
Similar Thread Suggestions
| Thread starter | Similar threads | Forum | Replies | Date |
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
"Police car" | General Chat | 27 | |
|
My number plates and the police | Body Work and Exterior Lights | 16 | |
|
Mclaren's leave police, inc - P1 | Other Marques | 3 | |
|
Black 200 Newmarket Police Station | Spotted | 0 | |
|
Police query part 2 jump in please!! | General Chat | 3 |