Police Query

[RyanStevo]

I'll cut the small talk and get straight to the point. If the police have "followed you" down a 30 road but they're a good 150-200 yards behind and claim they "couldn't keep up", but end up catching up to you BEFORE they turn the blue lights on and then pull you over you for excessive speeding in a 30 would you appeal the 3 points? By the time they had got close to me, I still couldn't see it was a police car because it was midnight so all I could see was headlights behind me. I came to the end of 30, over the roundabout and put my toe down to take off down the dual carriageway (70) but before I got a chance they switched the blue lights on.

They haven't said how fast they were going or I was going, they were quite far behind as I say and the roads we're a little twisty, if i was excessively speeding then for them to catch me up they must of been flooring it without blue lights causing me to panic and not slow down as fast...

edited - no sneaky policeman i was not speeding.

 

[Dmonk197]

Strange to give points without telling you how fast they clocked you, surly you can deny and ask to see proof that you were speeding?
when the points come in the post just appeal and say you dont remember speeding and can you see some evidence?

 

[Deaks]

Might not be best practice to admit you were on a forum though, it may come back to bite ya. Those sneaky beggars As mentioned I find it strange you were given points but not formally told how fast you were going..

 

[GrumpyTwig]

Would have thought you'd get a piece of paper with the details if dealt with at the scene?

What's it say?

Could potentially have done you for dangerous driving or driving without due care or attention?

 

[Warren]

If you were both doing 30, how would they have been able to "Catch you up" without exceeding it themselves? I Would be appealing and asking to see the proof purely because I wouldn't want to take the points.

 

[chappers]

They are the police, just because they didn't have lights on doesn't mean they can't pursue you.

Most likely they were clocking you to get a figure before pulling you over.

See what turns up in the post but I'd imagine they should have given you something at the roadside.

 

[Gez]

Dont worry about it. bet nothing will turn up going by what youve said. maybe just a warning? if they've not given you anything.

 

[RyanStevo]

I was given a ticket for 3 points and £100 fine.. The ticket just says excessive speeding, there's no specific speed on it. As I said, I can assure you they were going 60mph+ in a 30 with no lights on to get right up behind me, and with not being able to tell it was a police car I got nervous hence putting my foot down on the dual carriageway!

 

[Robo_#1]

If it were me, I'd take the points. Not trying to be "that guy", and I do empathise with you. But if you were speeding, and you got caught, you should probably take the punishment.

Maybe its just your explanation, but I don't really see that the police have done anything wrong (other than pestering someone driving at midnight). And trying a story about them scaring you or that they themselves were speeding probably wont get you anywhere and will just waste everyones time. Unless getting three points causes you to lose your licence, I'd just take them.

 

[RyanStevo]

I won't lose my license but will probably end up selling my car, the insurance will be stupid!

 

[GrumpyTwig]

Pepipoo is the only place you stand a chance of getting half decent advice for this. No Lawers on here I know of.

 

[RyanStevo]

Thanks grumpy, just signed up and posted!

 

[Paddy_R]

The police are well within their rights to follow a vehicle they suspect it is committing an offence without their lights and sirens on, with offences such as this its how they gather their evidence of the offence and if they immediately put their lights on then the person would stop what they were doing so they would have no evidence. They most likely kept a certain distance behind you for a certain time to check your speed. Personally I'd just accept the ticket and move on (though £100 seems a bit steep, it's £60 in Northern Ireland), as it's not an argument you ever going to win. Technically if the police even see you driving, with them stood at the side of the road, and they estimate your speed to be too high for the road you can still be prosecuted as they are deemed 'expert witnesses' in this area. As for being 'scared' by the car following you I wouldn't even bother trying that excuse, a guy tried that near me (was reported in my local paper) and the judge when through him for a shortcut, the penalty he got was around double what you got with the ticket for wasting the courts time.

You have to remember that if they can justify it (and speeding themselves to catch somebody speeding would easily justify their actions in you example) then the police can pretty much break any road traffic law they like.

 

[Fernandez]

As above, speak to a lawyer.

As far as I'm aware they have to follow you for 1/3 mile at the same speed as you in order to get a calibrated reading from their Speedo. To secure a safe conviction you would have be travelling around 35mph as the law states you get 10% leniency + 2mph.

If it was traffic car then it would be fitted with video, ask to see this as it would state the speed of the vehicle and also if blue lights and/or siren was on. Traffic cars also have a VASCAR system whereby it can measure your speed between to points, I.e a marker on the road or a landmark. This system is irrefutable in court unless you can demonstrate that the officer had reduced viability whilst performing the operation, e.g it was raining heavily, foggy or no streetlights.

Also ask to see the calibration certificate of the equipment used to measure your speed. If its not the same day then chances are you wouldn't be convicted.

As Paddy mentions Police officers are "expert witnesses" so a court will always listen and hold in high regard any evidence they produce. Its up to you to prove otherwise. innocent till proven guilty really is a myth.

 

[RyanStevo]

I'm just thinking what if i go to court and the judge thinks my punishment is too lenient and slaps me with more points or even a ban

 

[Iain 007]

If it were me, I'd take the points. Not trying to be "that guy", and I do empathise with you. But if you were speeding, and you got caught, you should probably take the punishment.

This unfortunately.

 

[Fernandez]

I'm just thinking what if i go to court and the judge thinks my punishment is too lenient and slaps me with more points or even a ban

If the police couldn't get a fixed speed then you run the risk of being found guilty of reckless or careless driving, neither of which you want.

In my youth which was a very long time ago I got slapped with a 9 month ban and a 600 fine for Reckless Driving and Racing on a Public Highway. unfortunately courts are more stringent nowadays and if I got caught today what I was doing then I'd get a prison sentence.

When an officer of the law shows a video in court of 3 sets of tail lights disappearing and the police car is maxxed out, no lawyer however good is getting you off.

 

[-Ally-]

If they weren't traffic cops they have no chance of a conviction, if they were it's highly unlikely they followed the correct procedure. Assuming you are prepared to fight it in court that is.

 

[Deaks]

If the police couldn't get a fixed speed then you run the risk of being found guilty of reckless or careless driving, neither of which you want.

In my youth which was a very long time ago I got slapped with a 9 month ban and a 600 fine for Reckless Driving and Racing on a Public Highway. unfortunately courts are more stringent nowadays and if I got caught today what I was doing then I'd get a prison sentence.

When an officer of the law shows a video in court of 3 sets of tail lights disappearing and the police car is maxxed out, no lawyer however good is getting you off.[/QUOTE

Haha what were you driving you naughty boy Angel.

 

[Paddy_R]

I'm just thinking what if i go to court and the judge thinks my punishment is too lenient and slaps me with more points or even a ban

That's the risk you run. The minimum for speeding is what the ticket was for. If you were speeding then just accept it and move on.

If they weren't traffic cops they have no chance of a conviction,

Not true. If they are both singing of the same hymn sheet, ie they were doing X mph in the 30 mph zone and they weren't catching you then its very likely they well get a conviction. When it comes down to it it will be you word as a member of the public against two police officers who are in the eyes of the law expert witnesses (assuming they were double crewed, all crews in Northern Ireland are double crews but I know you run single crews on mainland GB).

Also how much will a solicitor cost? A good few hundred I'd suggest.