Mike's Clio 200 track day car

Discussion in 'Projects/Progress Threads' started by Mfmman, Jul 13, 2018.

  1. Big Ben

    Big Ben Winner - POTM February 2018 Paid Member

    Messages:
    5,461
    Location:
    Herts
    Car:
    197
    Same
     
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  2. Mfmman

    Mfmman Paid Member

    Messages:
    32
    Car:
    Toyota Avensis
    Quick update

    New rear discs and pads (DS2500, thanks for the recommendations) fitted

    Off with the old, certainly had my moneys worth
    IMG_1019.JPG

    And on with the new.
    IMG_1023.JPG

    Also replaced the off side handbrake cable as it was sticking, one of the last outstanding items from the MOT that the car failed before I bought it and fitted the Ds1.11 pads to the front (no pics). I also have a flatter Turn One steering wheel to replace the dished OMP that I plan on fitting as well

    I have also bought an OMP subframe for the passenger side and retrieved a Sparco seat and TRS harness from the loft that were from my last rally car. I have booked a trackday at Combe for next Friday, so now I will have a passenger seat I can get some instruction. Although I have done about 25 stage rallies as a driver (and the same same as a co-driver) and the three track days in the Clio I have never had any type of instruction (outside of a day at Palmersport Bedford in 2010 - brilliant by the way) so I think it will be really helpful.
     

    Attached Files:

    peter likes this.
  3. trackspec197

    trackspec197 Paid Member

    Messages:
    1,065
    Location:
    Worcester
    Car:
    Clio 197 BMW 320 M Sport
    Good work. What car did you rally?
     
  4. Mfmman

    Mfmman Paid Member

    Messages:
    32
    Car:
    Toyota Avensis
    Co driving various Mk1 and Mk2 Escorts and a RWD 205

    Driving, early nineties Talbot Sunbeam that evolved from a standardish car to having a non turbocharged Sierra Cosworth engine (250bhp), ford gearbox and Atlas axle. Then another Sunbeam about six years ago that had standard redtop with about 175bhp and ford box etc.

    I also have this Sunbeam that I have owned for almost 13 years, abandoned project really now but I can't quite force self to sell it.

    epJe2WQ.jpg
     
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  5. trackspec197

    trackspec197 Paid Member

    Messages:
    1,065
    Location:
    Worcester
    Car:
    Clio 197 BMW 320 M Sport
    Sounds good. I’d love a mk2 Escort and love the sunbeam. Let me know if you come to sell it.
     
  6. Mfmman

    Mfmman Paid Member

    Messages:
    32
    Car:
    Toyota Avensis
    PM me an email address and I'll send you some info/pics
     
  7. trackspec197

    trackspec197 Paid Member

    Messages:
    1,065
    Location:
    Worcester
    Car:
    Clio 197 BMW 320 M Sport
    Pm sent mate
     
  8. Pav

    Pav Moderator

    Messages:
    11,611
    Location:
    Manchester
    Car:
    albi blue 197 with boost
    good job :french:
     
  9. Mfmman

    Mfmman Paid Member

    Messages:
    32
    Car:
    Toyota Avensis
    Trackday #4 - all a bit frustrating

    Fitted the passenger seat and belt - hugely expensive WRC specification carbon seat and super lightweight harness, both out of date for most MSA stuff and been in my loft for a good few years. I bought a pair of the seats and harnesses when they were still in date for such a low sum of money it's embarrassing. A rally car collector had bought an ex works car he wanted restored to completely original spec and a mate who does that sort of thing for a living offered them to me (all legit, I paid by cheque to the name of the guy who owned the car, I guess it was a irrelevant sum of money to him)

    IMG_1035.JPG

    New steering wheel also fitted. It's odd but although it is the same size as the previous one, it looks so much smaller. I can only think it because it is 'far away',a Father Ted reference for you there.

    IMG_1034.JPG

    So, on to today.

    Went out with the first few cars. Although the track was quiet, probably as it was wet and I only wanted to do two laps to bed the pads in but it was so slow that I struggled to get any speed up at all even to do that! Brakes felt horrific, snatchy and all over the place but admittedly it was stopping ok. Came in after two laps to let the pads cool back down.

    Next run was ok, but the brake vibration was still present. Track damp but drying up.

    Next run, I took an instructor but struggled to get any space on track, there were a lot of fast cars being driven slowly today! (edited to add: people have every right to drive as fast or slow as they like, but the briefing asks that people use their mirrors and move over) To be honest we spent so much time slowing up that I learnt very little. Decided I would try to get another lesson later in the day

    Last run before lunch, brakes getting worse. I did spend a bit (a very short bit) of time behind a brand new Porsche 991 GT2 RS. What a car that is, went like bloody hell and respect to the driver as they seem to be worth about half a million quid :astonished:

    Pulled the pads out at lunch, and they looked like this

    17CDA6C2-1C0E-4682-B0E6-2BBDB7B7FD94 - Copy.JPG

    Which I guess is glazing due to struggling to bed them in correctly. Cleaned up the discs and although it looked like most of the marks from the previous pads had gone, I think the damage may be done to these now :anguished:

    Went out after lunch, two laps and worse than ever.

    Packed up

    Went home

    So, vibration to the point of making the car un-driveable. Only under braking and as bad under light braking as heavy. Any thoughts other than glazed pads??
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
    trackspec197 and silverclio4410 like this.
  10. silverclio4410

    silverclio4410 Paid Member

    Messages:
    63
    Location:
    Southend
    Car:
    Clio
    If you have vibration under braking it would suggest warped discs, at least that's the only time I've have ever had the issue.

    And yeah I have heard that the ds3000s and similar require a heat cycling then a cool down to get the pads to be tiptop but the consequence of not doing it I shouldn't think would be braking vibration.
     
  11. Rishi

    Rishi Platinum Member

    Messages:
    598
    Location:
    NWLDN
    Car:
    197 Cup Albi Blue
    I'd also check that the disc is flush on the hub and the hub/bearing is sitting flush on the carrier.

    I had a steering wobble/vibration under braking and the n/s disc was blued/warped, it would turn freely for 180 degrees and then stiff for 180 degrees. New discs were the same and ended up replacing the hub and bearing to sort it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
  12. Mfmman

    Mfmman Paid Member

    Messages:
    32
    Car:
    Toyota Avensis
    A very long overdue update

    Been really busy the last few months with work and family stuff so time in the garage has been really in short supply. Other than washing the track day dirt off, I didn't touch the Clio between November and last week :anguished:. I have sold the orange Sunbeam though which has freed up both garage space and cash.

    So, back to the ongoing saga of brakes and vibrations. I bought various bits of measuring kit second hand from ebay as and when I saw it for sale and found the following.

    The front discs are about 50% worn (around 27mm thick). Passenger side has worn pretty evenly but drivers side tapers slightly towards the outer edge, but only by about 0.1-0.15mm. I measured the run out on the passenger side and it is 5 thousands of an inch (0.127mm) as per the below

    IMG_1215.JPG
    IMG_1216.JPG

    I then took the disc off and measured for run out on the hub and there isn't anything really. Drivers side is better at 2 thou (0.05mm) Bit of Googling and Brembo state that up to 0.1mm is acceptable. I then cleaned up the hub and disc faces and remounted and remeasured the disc and got the same results. Now there are websites out there that state that disc warping is a myth, so what is it then if not warping???

    Over the winter I have bough some new 330mm AP discs and a used PF 330mm mounting kit, so need to decide whether to fit these or a new set of Brembo HC discs. In the meantime I have rubbed down the pads with Garnet paper (more internet recommendation - apparently most sanding papers aren't a good idea as they contain iron which sticks into the pad and contaminates the disc - this may also be rubbish :confused: ). See comparison picture

    IMG_1217.JPG

    Just pulling the front end part now as the rad support is pretty rusty and I'd like to get the air con components out to save a bit of weight. Also, need to have a good look at the calipers as remember that comment above about the disc wear not quite being true? There is a much stronger smell of hot brake pad around the drivers side when compared to the passenger, sticky piston maybe?
     
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  13. Mfmman

    Mfmman Paid Member

    Messages:
    32
    Car:
    Toyota Avensis
    So, it turns out that although the disc mounting bolt of a 330x28mm PF disc (v2 version) and an AP equivalent are the same, the way they mount up are completely different. So new Brembo HCs it was. Checked over all pistons and all is well, nothing sticking.

    I will check run out just out of interest before I put the wheels back on.
    IMG_1223.JPG

    Also rust converted, zinc primered and repainted the radiator subframe which is now back in the car.

    IMG_1222.JPG

    And removed all the redundant AC kit except the evaporator, I will weigh it and post it up before it goes to the tip.

    IMG_1224.JPG
    Just considering which of the AC delete pulley options to go for before refitting the bumper etc.

    Hopefully a trackday in mid August, bit more weight loss maybe before then (the car, not me:laughing:) Oh, and changed the engine oil and filter as much easier whilst all in bits.
     
    lewishunter98 likes this.
  14. RSRowe

    RSRowe Paid Member

    Messages:
    173
    Car:
    Clio 197
    The ktec kit which relocates the alternator looks the most cost effective.
     
  15. Mfmman

    Mfmman Paid Member

    Messages:
    32
    Car:
    Toyota Avensis
    Yes, saw that but had a look around and found the standard Renault part for just a few quid more (second hand)

    Idler pulley.jpg


    The stripped out AC parts weigh 11.5kg and the above weighs 1.5kg. So a 10kg saving. All fitted now and front end back on the car
     
  16. John Edwards

    John Edwards Paid Member

    Messages:
    2
    Car:
    Clio
    Just had my car back from a service and they stated radiator subframe heavily corroded... I see you revamped yours is this easy enough to do? (If so what did you use?) Just trying to save a bit money as need new front/rear disks also and engine top mount! Cheers pal John
     
  17. Mfmman

    Mfmman Paid Member

    Messages:
    32
    Car:
    Toyota Avensis
    Hi John

    I stripped the bumper etc off as I was removing the condenser at the same time. Just used products I had on the shelf already really. Wire wheel in the drill to clean off rust and key the surface of the rest of the paint. A Hammerite rust converter product, I think. Brush on Zinc primer for a nice thick coat then basic satin black aerosol on top. Not perfect but good enough (spray zinc primer would make it a little smoother finish but I didn't have any). I did think about an aerosol cavity wax as well but that might be overkill
     
  18. John Edwards

    John Edwards Paid Member

    Messages:
    2
    Car:
    Clio
    Cheers pal, I'll give it a go.. my air con not working as well so prob need to replace my condensor also. Are both jobs straight forward enough?
    (Need new discs also was going for godspeed ghook)

    Cheers John
     
  19. Mfmman

    Mfmman Paid Member

    Messages:
    32
    Car:
    Toyota Avensis
    I only took the condenser out and binned it but looks easy enough to refit.

    There's a 'how to' guide in that section for taking the bumper off, the rest is straightforward enough. It's all new to me as the Clio is the only car of this type I have ever worked on. This forum is ace for guidance!
     
    John Edwards likes this.

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