LY200 - too loud or blow up again, taking bets!

[TB Rich]

Well you can never just replace like for like though, can you?...always gotta improve

Loaded the car up on a transporter tonight and I'll be taking it to the garage tomorrow morning to have the engine removed finally. I may take the head off and have a nosy, or I may just end up taking it whole to Ashford, but regardless should know more I hope by the following weekend really.

 

[tombate911]

Amazing! Great to see you're sticking with it! Amazing car especially going down the more power route is even more admirable!

 

[TB Rich]

ah well it does somewhat depend on the extent of the damage really, I don't want to be buying new rods, pistons, head, valves etc. But through a process of elimination on seemingly every bloody car on the market, turning the wick up further is at least my preferred option now . Hell it's a 2nd car now so perhaps solid lifters haha!
If those items are screwed though and essentially it's another complete and very costly engine needed, just to be back at square one.....then that's the point I'm calling it.

 

[RSPez]

Any updates Rich?

Pez

 

[TB Rich]

Yep update is..... damage was way more extensive than just spun bearings. Turns I out I was suffering from det again so was close to dying anyway

Gotta be a fuel supply issue or mapping to be affecting all 4 cyls, however to have this same thing happen to 2 engines both mapped by different people kinda rules out mapping, and the evidence in the combustion chamber around the valves apparently is showing it's pretty much fine. - Tbh the interpretation of these things is beyond me, but the opinion is fuel supply and suspect maybe a fuel pump. Which incidentally is also the only thing used the same between the 2 engines (as previous used R3 injectors, this one 200's).

Anyway, suffice to say I'm not building a whole new ground up engine again.

I picked up a spare engine a couple of weeks ago, so I'm going to sit and deliberate my next move

 

[R27SG]

Hi Rich, just sharing my joy and hate of owning the clio.

I had a similar issue with fueling. Changed fuel pump, change standalone ecu, change injectors and the problem lies with the UPC.

Basically the UPC is providing inconsistent current to the fuel pump causing fuel pressure to go up and down.

You might want to explore this possibility.



Btw, may I know what is your review on the 4.7FD? I am thinking of rebuilding my gearbox.

 

[TB Rich]

Interesting, thank you. So was your problem fixed by simply changing the UPC? How did you diagnose - multi meter? Might be hard for me to do that with no engine now!!

The 4.7 FD is ace, especially with the 003 ratios.
I don't think it'd work quite as well with the 031 ratios as 1-3 might be 'too' short, and the longer 5/6 also negates some of the benefit there of reducing it.
My gearbox will very likely be for sale in the next month or so - just waiting on a few things before I commit to selling any parts.

 

[R27SG]

Yes my problem was solved by changing the UPC and the UPC dont come cheap. It is a very expensive component to replace which is not a common thing to fail. There was no water contamination spotted. [emoji849]

Multi meter dont work because it is intermittent. You may want to swop the UPC with another Clio to see if the problem persist. Thats what i did to determine.

Do you know which gearbox the R27 has? Mine is manufactured in 2008. I am looking for a shorter 1-3. My goal is more torque for city driving.

Can you recall how much you paid for the 4.7FD? Gripper's 5.0FD is not cheap.

 

[TB Rich]

Interesting, I feel like junking the UPC and both the chassis and engine looms might be the way perhaps? Then adding in a SCS Delta PDM or an AiM MXsl would be cool when that comes out later this year.
In fact the AiM MXsl dash with integrated power driving would solve another issue I could have....! I'm not too clued up on this stuff (aka, I'm shocking at anything wiring based!) so will follow it up with a few shops.

Yep I bought an 021 box for the 4.7FD @ £150, 003 box for the ratios @ £350. Quaife @ £800 ish. Rebuild with new 3/4 synchros was @ £900 ish.
The Gripper FD is stupid money isn't it! and I wouldn't want it with 031 ratios either. I'm sure 1-3 would be manageable on 003 ratios, but it would have been too silly for road use in 6th!
I think 003+4.7FD is the best mixed use box, taking into account road and track. Perhaps 024+4.7FD being the next best if you just want that bit of extra length out of 5/6 gears.

I believe the R27 all got the 024 box. Which is the longer set of 1-3 like the early (003), but it got the longer 5/6. Which then all 197's got the 024 box after the R27.

If you currently have an 024, and you want shorter 1-3 you have 2 options:
1) fit a 200 box (031), be shorter 1-3 and same 4/5/6.
2) fit a final drive (to either 003 or 024 ratios) and shorten the whole thing up def the most fun option!

 

[R27SG]

Alternatively you can consider redirecting ignition current to fuel pump. Save you lotsa trouble.

I dont live in Europe. May I trouble you to source for a set of 4.7FD on my behalf?

 

[TB Rich]

ah right if you can bypass it yeah that would probably be easier. I don't like lots of disparate wiring systems though, drives me nuts! If I can however get away with having a new proper engine side loom (something I was consdering anyway with the move of ECU to under dash), and feeding a new pump/relay setup direct from that - should be a neat way to go.

There are 2 x TL4 021 boxes on eBay, both about £100 with delivery to me. Trouble is I don't have the tools (or space currently) to strip a box as you need pullers I believe.
However speak to Richard Humphery at RenTune, I know they have built boxes using the 021 FD before - so if they haven't got any on the shelf, then they at least know how to source/strip/send one to you
http://rentune.co.uk/ - he's been very helpful to me over the last couple of years so def give them a try first.

 

[R27SG]

Hi Rich,

Thanks for the pointer. I have contacted Richard and hope he can get back to me soon.

I am planning on just changing the 5th gear 38/39 from 003 with the 4.7FD for my 024.

What is your view? I dont want my 1-3 to be too over aggressive. So i am keeping 1-4 bring 5 closer and keep 6 for cruising.

Not sure if you got the time to plot a graph for me, relative to speed and rpm base on above spec?

 

[R27SG]

PS: where to confirm if my box is 003 or 024?

 

[TB Rich]

Ah it seems like it was about Aug 2008 the later box came in, not necessarily to do with R27's. I guess only real way to know if your car is around that period is to physically look on the box. Iirc is it's on a white label and also stamped into the end casing somewhere. My box is off so I can double check location later if needed.

Use this link for ratios, I've pre-populated it currently with: 003+4.7FD on left (red), 024+4.7FD on right (blue).
http://www.teammfactory.com/calcula...1.947/1.482/1.205/0.971/0.810/7500/7500/1/0/2

You've about 500rpm lower cruising on average at 'cruising' type speeds going for an 024 vs 003 6th.

Either 003 or 024 with 4.7FD won't have an overly aggressive 1-3 at all, as can be seen on my graph I made a while back, they end up very similar to stock 031 1-3 ratios (1 & 2 are essentially exactly the same).
So if your main goal is to get a shorter 1-3 and you don't want to compromise your cruising, probably be a lot easier and cheaper to get a complete 031 box and leave it?
Personally I love the 003 ratios as they feel closer and then the final drive lowers them all so I got what I wanted out of 3-6 really, and of course also not ruining 1-2 either.

Anyway you can find all the ratios and FD's from the TL4 range for playing about here: http://www.cliorsr.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/6019A-TL4info.pdf
There's even a 4.437 (16/71), but it's probably not worth the effort as stock is 4.312 (16/69).

 

[R27SG]

Hi Rich & company's,

Good news. I am getting 2 boxes to mix the gear ratio and final drive but I have trouble trying to find the best ratio for acceleration. I am looking for aggressive gearing from 1-5 and cruising at 6. But not too sure if there is any advantage for being too close? I hope you can provide me with your insights.

Ratios from the boxes I am getting are from 021 & 031 with my stock 003

1st
3.73
3.36
3.18 (thinking of using this to minimise rpm for dropping too much to 2nd)

2nd
2.11 (to close things up)
1.95

3rd
1.52 (to further close things up)
1.48
1.45

4th
1.21 (to continue closing things up)
1.11

5th
1.03 (to continue closing things up)
0.97
0.91

6th
0.87
0.81
0.77 (most likely using this for cruising)

FD
4.31
4.73 (definitely be using this)

 

[TB Rich]

That's a big ol jump 5th to 6th, certainly gives you an over drive. If you have a xbox 360 and Forza 4, get the Clio 200, buy the race gearbox - and try the ratios out, that's what I ended up doing! lol

Spoke to Ashford about the fuel pump wiring and they said I should absolutely do as you said and should be using a direct feed for the pump cutting out all the Renault junk in the process. It's inadvertently probably cost me 2 engine not doing so

 

[Yiannis197]

Interesting update. My UPC also went and replacing it didn't give me (or my warranty) much change out of a £1k. Apparently you only have to buy brand new and code it to the car? Or so they said...

 

[R27SG]

Hi Rich. May I know if the FD is a direct fit?

 

[R27SG]

Interesting update. My UPC also went and replacing it didn't give me (or my warranty) much change out of a £1k. Apparently you only have to buy brand new and code it to the car? Or so they said...

I did not need to code it. Just plug and play.

 

[TB Rich]

Hi Rich. May I know if the FD is a direct fit?

Hi, yep it is a straight fit. Sorry not been on the forum much recently with the car being engine-less!

Although...my new engine is built and ready to be collected! I've taken my own advice this time and used a pretty stock bottom end (ARP rod bolts, ARP main studs) and mated this to the fancy head with 403's still, ITB's (to be built) and R3 exhaust, and ARP head studs (tbh the ARP mains and heads were left over otherwise I wouldn't have bothered).
This way if it fails again all I need to source is a stock spare engine and just swap the top ends over pretty much. Unless the belt goes and mangles the valves, in which case it's just new set of Supertechs; but regardless it'll be FAR cheaper to replace now

It should still do around 220bhp but obviously is never going to make up around the 240's like it always should have done if I got the right cams in it, because now it's inhibited by the valve/piston clearance. I guess it could make up to about 230bhp if the ITB setup really works and the lengths all work out etc, it'll sound mental anyway!

Oh and continuing my run of worst car luck ever.......my 'daily' has died too! A water leak through the sunroof, ran down into the fuse box and is currently fucked! Possibly picking up a 220T Trophy on the w/end to get mobile again, grown too used to a dual-clutch for daily duties