LY200 - too loud or blow up again, taking bets!

[TB Rich]

Thought I would start a project thread for my car now it's had a bit done to it and having a hell of a lot more over the next 2 weeks. As I'm already paying for web hosting for something else I thought I'd just register a domain name and piggy back of the hosting

www.cliorsr.uk

Just started going through some of the back dates and putting them on the site, I'll update this post with new stuff going forward starting with the rebuild which is starting this coming Monday

---
*Current specs* Probably 225bhp genuine based on last 2 dynos

Engine:

• Engine built by Ashford Motorsport
• Pure Motorsport 48mm Jenvey ITB kit
• Pure Motorsport radiator and twin fan kit
• Specialist Components Delta 800 ECU, integrated in to CANbus with OEM dash etc
• Ashford Motorsport/Ilmor ported head
• Catcam ‘403’ cams
• Custom Eibach ERS valve springs
• Supertech forged stainless inlet valves
• Supertech Iconel exhaust valves
• ARP rod bolts
• ARP head bolts
• ARP main cap studs
• Aros R3 exhaust manifold
• Akrapovic Evo exhaust system
• Clio Mk4 R3T fuel pump and Cup Racer fuel pump cover
• Radium Engineering Fuel Pulse Damper (XR)
• Clio Cup Racer X85 A/C delete
• Alloy lightweight crank pulley
• Odyssey PC950 battery
• Setrab oil cooler
• Mocal sandwich plate
• Motul 5w-40 oil
• Pure Motorsport -10AN Billet breather plate
• Mocal catch tank
• KTR/Vibra-Technics engine mounts (lower torque link, gearbox, main engine)
• Powerflex upper torque link bush
• PROGold fuel and lines installed by Pro-Line Motorsport

Transmission:

• TL4 003 gear ratios
• TL4 021 4.73 (15/71) final drive
• Quaife ATB
• Elf Tranself NFP 75w80 fully synthetic oil

Brakes:

• Motul RBF660 fluid
• Reyland 2-piece alloy bells
• Godspeed 330mm 2-piece rotors
• DS1.11 front pads
• DS2500 rear pads
• Mtec black coated grooved rear discs
• KTR braided brake hoses

Suspension:

• Bilstein PSS B14 Coilover kit
• Compbrake adjustable solid top mounts

Interior:

• AiM EVO4S Data Logger with GS-Dash & GPS08 module
• AiM oil temp, oil pressure & fuel pressure sensors
• Renault Recaro CS seats
• Madeno Racing Recaro CS lowered seat frame
• Momo Model 08 steering wheel
• RenaultSport gear knob
• Clarion FZ-102E stereo

Exterior:

• 200 Cup wheels (Satin Black) /w ContiSport’s for road
• 200 Cup wheels (Satin Black) /w Pilot Sport Cup 2's for track

Last RR at Regal: (232bhp / 189FtLb)

Mapping RR figures: (220bhp / 172FtLb)

 

[Gez]

This looks a promising build!

What about head bolts and head gasket? Upgrading?

Are you raising the rev limiter?

Id be looking at having some head work and the inlet manifold ported too while your going all out. More air flow the better with a spec like that.

 

[Gez]

Just looked at your link too! I'll keep my eyes on that! Interesting about the manifold!

 

[TB Rich]

Ah yes I am, missed that! The inlets are being matched top half to bottom and then to the head, also the exhaust ports will be looked at due to the R3 manifold.

The head's dont need work until you go lairy cams, 403's are about the same spec as the R3 Maxi (230bhp) and iirc they run stock heads vs the Maxi Evo at 250bhp which does have head work.

The rev limit will be depending on the power curve, however I'm expecting to set it to ~7800, this is because the engine is still using hydraulic lifters. The bottom end will be good for over 8500rpm, the valves and springs about the same. But unless you go solid lifters you're stuck at 7500-8000 really. It'll be pretty bullit proof at that though, just need to wait and see what the cruves look like.
Head bolts not needed either really, I mean you could use the ARP stud kit but it's a cast block so it doesnt flex as much as modern alloy blocks. Also the standard head gasket is a MLS type, the builder uses genuine renault or above spec parts for the odds and sods (water pump, belts etc).

I've had to draw a line somewhere and think this should give me a genuine 220+ (would love as close to 230 as possible), and be reliable with it too (hence nearly 1k on Arrow rods!). Any further and it would double the cost - because bigger cams would need solid lifters, also ITB's to idle, which needs a standalone to run, head work for the cams too - might as well go big valves because at 33.5mm inlet is small for a 2.0 (duratec and k20 both use 35mm inlet stock).... so about another 5k again!

 

[Gez]

Brilliant little read there buddy. I agree, what your doing is awesome! Nice to see someone tuning the N/A! Keep us updated

 

[TB Rich]

cheers, yeah I like NA and it's a shame no one is really doing much on these. I mean I could have meg'ed it for less, but that would be too easy
(should have bought a flipping FN2 type R, that would have been even easier and at least NA tuning gets you some decent numbers!)

oh also because the F4R is under-square, once you get above 8000 the piston speed starts getting mental, so you want to look at doing the R3 Evo rods (150mm) and pistons to make it a bit 'squarer' - 90mm storke on Evo vs 93mm on stock.
Trouble is the only off the shelf rods I know of in Evo lengths are PEC, but I don't like the cap design and although rare - I've seen images of failures on them around that part. Custom Arrows would probably be even more money again and I have a schedule to stick too also.
The Evo rod/piston combination looses you a bit of displacment too so you need to over bore to 84mm to get it to back up (1995cc). Actuall I'm doing an over bore anyway to ensure no risidual damage, I'm going from 82.7mm to 83mm which means I'll be at 2013cc.

 

[Raptor6767]

Looking forward reading this thread! :thumbup:

SUBSCRIBED.

 

[-Eddie-]

As above, looking forward to seeing this build!

 

[Pav]

sounds very promising...would love to learn some new stuff...:thumbup:

 

[Foxspeed]

interesting - should be a good read

was something I would have considered if I kept mine - build a spare engine with some nice internal parts etc

f4r piston speeds as standard at 7.5k revs is still mental compared to some other engines

 

[Yiannis197]

Well played Rich, it seems that you've done your research, this thread gives a very interesting breath of fresh air in the forum.

Subscribed and can't wait for updates.

 

[Gez]

It does Yiannis! I'm glad the NA lumps are gettitng cash splashed

 

[Yiannis197]

Indeed, that engine will be then all nice and ready to accept a set of itbs when they become available in the - not so distant I hope - future!

 

[TB Rich]

Indeed, that engine will be then all nice and ready to accept a set of itbs when they become available in the - not so distant I hope - future!

haha, I'll take donations for that one! But yeah I do miss the bark of ITB's, if Ktec ever release the Gen128 then it'll open the doors

 

[Raptor6767]

Yup...no one is talking anything about the ITB's any longer.
They were "popular" 3-4 years ago. Can't remember anyone getting any positive results.

I've got something of my own in the works (no, I'm not going for the ITB but something more like JMS RS2...running some simulations in Solidworks for the past week, and getting ready for testing in the next 4-5 weeks ).

 

[TB Rich]

Yup...no one is talking anything about the ITB's any longer.
They were "popular" 3-4 years ago. Can't remember anyone getting any positive results.

I've got something of my own in the works (no, I'm not going for the ITB but something more like JMS RS2...running some simulations in Solidworks for the past week, and getting ready for testing in the next 4-5 weeks ).

I had ITB's on a Peugeot TU5 16v. I had positive results, hard to attribute how much the ITB's were worth but it made 171bhp from 1.6.
If people arn't doing them as much nowadays it'll be because modern cars have every damn system tied in through canbus to the ECU and they are all drive by wire. So it's not easy to simply remove the OEM ECU now unless you want to run a new dash and throttle pedal etc.

To do it you'll need a decent standalone with canbus and a decent dbw implentation. Then you'll need to invest in coding it to work with all the OE systems and what not. I dread to think how much it would cost as a one off! It needs a tuner to fund it knowing they have a target audience to cover the serious up front effot.

Syvecs is a very good ECU and there is a p'n'p implementation for the mk2 Focus RS, coded up so you can switch boost levels via the OEM stalk that would normally change steering weight!! It's £2500 which is a lot but not bad... however,, Devil Developments I understand headed up the development work and must have spent loads of time to get it up and running properly from scratch. So if you were to 1-off a mk3 Clio, gotta be talking £4k+??

Your inlet sounds interesting though, be sure to keep us all updated, I'll def be interested if it produces the goods

 

[Raptor6767]

I absolutely agree with you. :thumbup1:

Won't post any updates untill it's on my Clio and dyno/street tested before & after.

 

[litchy]

Really interesting stuff. Clios should ideally be NA and not turbo (and that's coming from someone with one). I looked at every option to keep it NA, but the costs to get to even 220bhp were hard to justify. If you look at the ITB White one on here a few years ago (featured in French car too) over 15k+ on engine mods alone and it still never ran right when he sold it. Clearly the rally cars are producing good power but you couldn't live with that engine in a road car. I wish you well but do your research (which is clear you are doing) as there's good reason why there's not many been done.

As a well respected turner told me over 4 years ago, get the clio running right and drive it like you stole it. When it comes to the point you need more power, buy a different car. I Megged it instead. I miss the NA though.....

 

[TB Rich]

Yeah I wouldn't be doing this unless I hadn't of shagged the bottom end. Pricing out a normal rebuild worked out pointless. Pricing out buying another engine was a difficult one, because finding a low mileage 200 engine is bloody hard - I'm not putting a higher mileage engine in - I paid a premium for a 1 owner low mileage car.
So looking at the more plentiful 197 engine, well that's a no go because the head is not quite as good, so by the time I've swapped the top end over and done freshend up the bottom end with bearings and rings etc, worked out about 2.5k less than what I'm doing - man maths says I'm getting a lot of **** for that money!

The decision then became simple - mental engine ,or sell the car. As much as I want an E92 M3, I chickened out at the running costs and I still want the Clio too!

 

[Luke_197]

This is gonna be a great build thread mate, I've subscribed so will be keep a close eye on it.

Any idea how long it will take you to complete?

I'm tempted to go for the same supersprint racing system like you. But I'm worried with a manifold and decat it will break the noise limits on a lot of tracks. Will be interesting to see what decibels yours is at after the work is done. Guess the sports cat will quiet things down a little.