Cazan Racing 330mm brake disks + Ferodo DS1.11 = ruined pads

[TB Rich]

No it's not cheap but I think the kit is pretty commensurate with the cost. Though engineering defects for this money are of course completely unacceptable.

Yeah the noise is strange, ticking/clicking is probably the closest way to describe it. Also only really noticeable when the window is down, so it's a fairly light noise. It changes frequency/pitch when you brake and also gets a bit louder when you have some steering angle. Do you have the J-hook rotors? I was planning to beat the crap out the brakes on a couple of track days then possibly swap to 6 grove rotors.

 

[Chris_200CUP]

Is it just one side it has done it? Sure the piston hasn't been stuck and not releasing.


they might be just pagid x5 discs but come
on , we are only trying to haul up a Clio!! Pagid is good make and bmw ain't going fit poor discs are they? If can stop a x5 then clio is no issue.

If you fitted PF or APs would see a difference on
car like this? No would be answer to that.

Ive never suffered noise issue with them
either

 

[nicknameless]

Heard anything from Fernandez yet?

 

[madlynx]

No it's not cheap but I think the kit is pretty commensurate with the cost. Though engineering defects for this money are of course completely unacceptable.

Yeah the noise is strange, ticking/clicking is probably the closest way to describe it. Also only really noticeable when the window is down, so it's a fairly light noise. It changes frequency/pitch when you brake and also gets a bit louder when you have some steering angle. Do you have the J-hook rotors? I was planning to beat the crap out the brakes on a couple of track days then possibly swap to 6 grove rotors.

Mine used to click when I banged on the brakes. Although it turned out to be a different issue - not the brakes. I though that you could have the same issue.
Yeap, got the J-hook rotors.

 

[madlynx]

Is it just one side it has done it? Sure the piston hasn't been stuck and not releasing.

they might be just pagid x5 discs but come
on , we are only trying to haul up a Clio!! Pagid is good make and bmw ain't going fit poor discs are they? If can stop a x5 then clio is no issue.

If you fitted PF or APs would see a difference on
car like this? No would be answer to that.

Ive never suffered noise issue with them
either

Both sides are the same. Although the passenger side has more damage. We had a lot of left turns on the track - it might be that...
x5 is not really a sports car and the material used to produce the pagid discs might be not perfect to work with performance race pads - hence the result. It's just an assumption. I'm guessing that AP or PF performance rotors would perform better with aggressive pads.

 

[madlynx]

Heard anything from Fernandez yet?

Not yet. To be fair - today was the first time I've contacted him regarding this issue.
I'll try to get in touch with him though FB.

 

[TB Rich]

Mine used to click when I banged on the brakes. Although it turned out to be a different issue - not the brakes. I though that you could have the same issue.
Yeap, got the J-hook rotors.

ah right, no I'm pretty sure mine is the brakes. I changed 3 things from standard at once, pads, pins and discs - ever since ****ing annoying noise I can't see it being pads and pins - tons of people have the stainless pins without issue - and if pads were moving it would be a louder clunking noise that would happen as the pads moved and not a continual noise even with brakes contracted. So must be discs but I was told that it's normal by Cazan, yet here we are on this thread - 2 other people with J hooks and no noise..... might ring Reyland tomorrow.

 

[ClioR27]

certianly looks like a piston issue on the calipers, which they are well known for. Id be looking here before you start ranting on a forum.

Regardless of what the megame boys say about them, ive never heard anyone moan or complain about them. I know there will always be one case but still...
Reyland wont put these in to prodcution, if it would effect their reputation in anyway.

 

[madlynx]

certianly looks like a piston issue on the calipers, which they are well known for. Id be looking here before you start ranting on a forum.

Regardless of what the megame boys say about them, ive never heard anyone moan or complain about them. I know there will always be one case but still...
Reyland wont put these in to prodcution, if it would effect their reputation in anyway.

I'm not ranting - I was looking for an advise from the community. I'm not trying to blame anyone - I'm just trying to find a solution for my problem. I maybe jumping to conclusions too quickly - I've got a major racing event coming up in 2 weeks and I've got no brakes))) I'm stressed out.

Could you please share a bit more info regarding piston issue on the calipers? Is there a discussion on this forum?

 

[Stephenvenning]

I'm not ranting - I was looking for an advise from the community. I'm not trying to blame anyone - I'm just trying to find a solution for my problem. I maybe jumping to conclusions too quickly - I've got a major racing event coming up in 2 weeks and I've got no brakes))) I'm stressed out.

Could you please share a bit more info regarding piston issue on the calipers? Is there a discussion on this forum?

The pistons generally don't get seized on the fronts. The pads normally corrode on the backing plate, seizing them into the calliper. If you have new pads I doubt this is the issue. Might be worth replacing the seals if you are doing regular track days.

 

[Chris_200CUP]

Both sides are the same. Although the passenger side has more damage. We had a lot of left turns on the track - it might be that...
x5 is not really a sports car and the material used to produce the pagid discs might be not perfect to work with performance race pads - hence the result. It's just an assumption. I'm guessing that AP or PF performance rotors would perform better with aggressive pads.

I agree a x5 is not a sports car but still make powerful engines for them and weigh as much as a tank... So brakes have be up too a fair standard.

What's the back disc look like?? to me looks like discs have eat the pad.

 

[madlynx]

and weigh as much as a tank... So brakes have be up too a fair standard.
.

Fair point)
I'll take some pictures tomorrow and will post it here. I really appreciate all your help guys!
PS. Could it be an overheating issue? Although I haven't done any endurance racing - only 2 track days. I'd say light sessions. My stock disks and pads were completely fine after similar sessions.

 

[PAUL JA]

Is it worth sending the pics to Ferodo tech support, they may have something useful to say?

http://www.ferodoracing.com/contact/

 

[madlynx]

Is it worth sending the pics to Ferodo tech support, they may have something useful to say?

http://www.ferodoracing.com/contact/

Smart idea, thanks. I've done that (emailed their Tech guys and one salesman. just in case)))
Let's see if they respond.

 

[nicknameless]

Not yet. To be fair - today was the first time I've contacted him regarding this issue.
I'll try to get in touch with him though FB.

Best of luck.

 

[ClioR27]

The pistons generally don't get seized on the fronts. The pads normally corrode on the backing plate, seizing them into the calliper. If you have new pads I doubt this is the issue. Might be worth replacing the seals if you are doing regular track days.

bed to differ mate, ive had 2 sets of brmobs on my r27, one from new and reburbs ones, the ones on the car from factory the pistons were, how shall i say..... not as free as they should of been, a piston either side would budge.
it is a common issue with these calipers

 

[madlynx]

the ones on the car from factory the pistons were, how shall i say..... not as free as they should of been, a piston either side would budge.
it is a common issue with these calipers

How can one diagnose such a problem? And how do you solve it? Thx in advance...

 

[leeboy]

I'm about to fit the Reyland set today, providing that my DS2500 pads arrive today! I have been running with the PF 330kit with no problems, but the CL RC6 pads have killed the rotors. For £500 I'm not expecting them to be as good as the PF kit, but if they are absolutely rubbish then I will send them back to Martin at Reyland and get my money back to put towards the PF rotors.
On the other hand if they meet my expectations, does anybody want to buy a PF set of bells? Haha

 

[madlynx]

An update with disk pictures. Was really hard to get access and make visible the damage. I'm no photographer But still - you can see the condition I hope.

 

[madlynx]

Below I'm posting response from Ferodo Racing department. It was very helpful and clarifies a lot. Any comments are very welcome!

"Thanks for your note. Sorry to hear of your issues. It's not often we see this but you had hot-banding on your rotor. This happens with the following combination of conditions:

Disc with poor thermal diffusivity + pad with low conformability (i.e. a hard pad) + (often) long draggy brake applications (you might not have seen it at your harder track where you would have braked more sharply).

These conditions means that the disc cannot get heat away from the rubbing surface quickly and gets localized into circumferential bands. This means these stripes around the disc stand proud because they are hotter (less dense and thus more voluminous). A hard pad will not conform to these ridges and thus tends to ride along the top of them. This further exacerbates the situation (the ridges get hotter and stand prouder). By the end the deformation (ridging in pads and disc is permanent)

Solutions: change your discs to ones with better thermal properties, or use a softer pad. The EBC pad is much softer. I must say it is pretty rare to see hot banding like this with DS1.11 with good quality racing discs

The copper coloured dots are bronze posts braised to the friction backplate to eliminate any possibility of pad detachment. Bronze is softer than the DS1.11 friction materials and has no other implications on performance or wear.

As a practical step it is not that your pads are ruined (I don't know about your disc) but just ridged. You might try swapping them round (put inner in outer and vice-versa and do a very complete bedding (30 applications building up pressures gradually to get everything hot). I attach an idealized procedure. That might correct the situation. But with that disc pad combination there would be no guarantee that it would not happen again."