Another gearbox oil thread

[Rocketron]

Ok yet another gearbox thread I'm afraid to say.

Since changing my gear oil, to the recommended elf nfj it's been hard to engage from cold....virtually impossible if it's now that the cider mornings have come soon us....so I'm guessing it's not ideal for these boxes, ive bled the clutch, all new fluid also so it's definitely not that.

Maybe oilman can chime in?

What's people's experiences on this issue and what's resolved it?

Just to add, there's absolutely no syncro issues, no crunching.

 

[Foxspeed]

http://www.clio197.net/forum/showthread.php?45655-Redline-gearbox-oil

 

[Rocketron]

Ok....tried redlines gearbox oil to try reduce this not being able to select a gear ok cold start, no luck at all, I'm starting to think it's the clutch slave...

I've bled it countless times so it's not needing bled either. I do however see that redline have changed the viscosity to the same as factory spec oils....

 

[Foxspeed]

Ok....tried redlines gearbox oil to try reduce this not being able to select a gear ok cold start, no luck at all, I'm starting to think it's the clutch slave...

I've bled it countless times so it's not needing bled either. I do however see that redline have changed the viscosity to the same as factory spec oils....

clutch master cylinders have been known to go faulty

 

[Rocketron]

clutch master cylinders have been known to go faulty

Yeah so I gathered, along with very thing else on the car.

Nah seriously though, it's temperature related, over a certain atmospheric temp and its fine, or once the box is warmed up a bit.

Gets right on my nipples it does, no gear crunching

 

[Womble]

I have said this before, but it is just a theory of mine. The materials in the gearbox are sticking with the modern oils. I too have the above problems, and I find the NEW Renault gearbox oil is the best after a couple of thousand miles.

My theory is age related, but we always used to use go old Automatic transmission fluid, in our manual gearboxes. If you have a read up, you will see that the oil is different because in the auto boxes they used similar materials to what are used in our Clio boxes. My own opinion, is that when the car is in neutral and the clutch is out, the lay shaft is spinning and the oil is sticking everything together, so when you try to select any gear with the engine running after being in neutral, you first have to break this sticksion. Switch the engine off and you will get any gear you want, but with the engine running even when the box is warm, selecting a gear is very difficult. Autoboxes, will not work with this sticksion, so they use a different type of oil to work with the ceramic materials etc. One of the first things we used to do with our Fords, Sierra 4x4's and all sorts, was to pull the propshaft out and drain the oil and fill with ATF. We never had any gearbox problems and the shift was a lot smoother. I used to manufacture quick shift levers for Ford boxes and one of my recommendations was to replace the oil, for a smoother shift. So this oil was good enough for 150mph Sierras so it should be good for our boxes. Sometimes, modern lubricants don't work.

Just need a guinea pig, to try this out [emoji12]

 

[Rocketron]

I have said this before, but it is just a theory of mine. The materials in the gearbox are sticking with the modern oils. I too have the above problems, and I find the NEW Renault gearbox oil is the best after a couple of thousand miles.

My theory is age related, but we always used to use go old Automatic transmission fluid, in our manual gearboxes. If you have a read up, you will see that the oil is different because in the auto boxes they used similar materials to what are used in our Clio boxes. My own opinion, is that when the car is in neutral and the clutch is out, the lay shaft is spinning and the oil is sticking everything together, so when you try to select any gear with the engine running after being in neutral, you first have to break this sticksion. Switch the engine off and you will get any gear you want, but with the engine running even when the box is warm, selecting a gear is very difficult. Autoboxes, will not work with this sticksion, so they use a different type of oil to work with the ceramic materials etc. One of the first things we used to do with our Fords, Sierra 4x4's and all sorts, was to pull the propshaft out and drain the oil and fill with ATF. We never had any gearbox problems and the shift was a lot smoother. I used to manufacture quick shift levers for Ford boxes and one of my recommendations was to replace the oil, for a smoother shift. So this oil was good enough for 150mph Sierras so it should be good for our boxes. Sometimes, modern lubricants don't work.

Just need a guinea pig, to try this out [emoji12]

Well womble, your theory seems logical, if I'm perfectly honest the oil that was originally in the box when I bought the car was fine performance wise, just with being a stickler for maintenance was the reason I changed the oil and from that moment, I'm talking days, I've noticed this issue....now I might add the oil I removed was pretty manky but it worked, I replaced with elf nfj, issue, replaced with redlines newer viscosity and I have to say it's worse.

The part you brush on about the atf being up to the job, I'm sure it wouldn't be anymore if a strain on the box or linkages etc than having to force it in gear given certain situations, I'm patient with the box when it won't go in but not always is that possible so it does tend to get forced on occasion and I'm pretty sure I can feel the linkages have taken a beating because of it.

Can I ask, off the top of my head am I right in thinking nfj isn't fully synthetic? Plus has additives to suit these boxes specifically? Is there an elf oil alike but of slightly lower viscosity that could at least be used over winter periods?

 

[Womble]

Try some Ford ATF in, it's not a big job to change. As I said I tried the alternatives, Redline etc, but in my case the NEW Renault oil feels best after a few miles. If I was 30 years younger I would of changed the oil yet again, but my old bones struggle in the cold and damp.

 

[Rocketron]

Ah I feel your pain lol, bad back and knees reep havoc all the time, I'll drop it again and try what you suggested.

Dare u ask what possessed you to convert to Renault if your an old school ford boy?

 

[shubz197]

I've had a similar problem, but not to the point of being completely unable to get gear. Went to my mechanic, he sprayed some lubricant on the selector cable bushings, and voila! Like magic, the gears went in as smooth as brand new! Get a good lubricant and try it out. U can actually access it from the top of the engine bay, if you have a nice long thin nozzle-extension. If it doesn't work, at least it's you're only down a can of lubricant. You should be able to find some alternative use for the lube anyways ;-)

Let me know if it works
Peace

 

[Rocketron]

I've had a similar problem, but not to the point of being completely unable to get gear. Went to my mechanic, he sprayed some lubricant on the selector cable bushings, and voila! Like magic, the gears went in as smooth as brand new! Get a good lubricant and try it out. U can actually access it from the top of the engine bay, if you have a nice long thin nozzle-extension. If it doesn't work, at least it's you're only down a can of lubricant. You should be able to find some alternative use for the lube anyways ;-)

Let me know if it works
Peace

Hi shubz I'll certainly give it a try, thanks

 

[shubz197]

No worries man.
It's the bushings which meet at the gearbox end.

 

[Rocketron]

No worries man.
It's the bushings which meet at the gearbox end.

Do you have to remove the battery to get to them?

 

[Womble]

Rocketron. After nearly 30 years of performance Fords, And I had most of the RS range, I was to say disappointed is not really strong enough a word, but after the Racing Puma and the mk1 Focus RS, Ford have just lost the plot. Where the mk2 FRS was a very quick car, it is not a hot Hatch, it does not reward you in the way the Clio does. Also my £30K Mountune Focus RS was plagued with poor build quality and poor customer service.

My Renault dealer is not bad, apart from the sales side. I'm on my second 200 and I had a Megane 265Trophy, probably the best handling car ever, but not the same fun as the Clio, Trophy is really more track focused and while a very good road car, it is difficult to exploit its abilities and stay within speed limits. The Clio does it all really, it has a good sound track, reasonable suspension, proper brakes, proper seats etc etc. Ford should really take a leaf out of Renaultsport and build a RS Fiesta for the hot hatch enthusiast.

 

[shubz197]

Do you have to remove the battery to get to them?

No you don't. But it may make it easier. We used a lubricant spray, together with a long thin nozzle...

Something like this

Hope that helps
Peace

 

[jam1991]

Is it acceptable to never change the gearbox oil?

Renault don't mention anything about it or related in any servicing material for the 197/200.

 

[Rocketron]

Rocketron. After nearly 30 years of performance Fords, And I had most of the RS range, I was to say disappointed is not really strong enough a word, but after the Racing Puma and the mk1 Focus RS, Ford have just lost the plot. Where the mk2 FRS was a very quick car, it is not a hot Hatch, it does not reward you in the way the Clio does. Also my £30K Mountune Focus RS was plagued with poor build quality and poor customer service.

My Renault dealer is not bad, apart from the sales side. I'm on my second 200 and I had a Megane 265Trophy, probably the best handling car ever, but not the same fun as the Clio, Trophy is really more track focused and while a very good road car, it is difficult to exploit its abilities and stay within speed limits. The Clio does it all really, it has a good sound track, reasonable suspension, proper brakes, proper seats etc etc. Ford should really take a leaf out of Renaultsport and build a RS Fiesta for the hot hatch enthusiast.

I've owned two mk3 fiesta rs's in my day actually, one which was ragged till it died, broken door handles, core plugs leaked, clutch problems but it was fun, i abused it hence the reason it gave up, the other one was a show car previously, I tuned it, bigger injectors, escort turbo super chipped there in lies the problem I think, ran lean top end and melted Pistons. That was a headache of a car along with a long line of problematic cars, I threw an alarming amount of money at an Impreza P1 which kept blowing up lol so I guess the stigma about renaults are a little unjustly.

One of the most fun cars I had was an R5 turbo which kinda inspired me to get the clio, I love my clio, most nights once the little nipper is in bed it's getting stripped to some degree and tinkered with, the minor faults are an excuse to get filthy really, half the time I'm just being fussy, I've never had the opportunity to even use it to its full potential.

I'd really like to take it on track but I'd be wary of running it into a barrier or something, you ever track your clio?

Ah megane trophy, I've been on their site looking at the 275 trophy? Maybe it was the 265 I'm not sure, lovely motors.

 

[Rocketron]

No you don't. But it may make it easier. We used a lubricant spray, together with a long thin nozzle...

Something like this

Hope that helps
Peace

Found them, gave them a spray but couldn't quite get to the linkages so I'll remove the battery and do it properly. You might be onto something by the way cause when I wiggled the little balljoints they felt dry [emoji106]

 

[shubz197]

Yip. My mechanic always does them when my car goes in, so I've never noticed. They need to stay lubricated.

 

[Rocketron]

It's the little things that get neglected mate big thumb ups for that one cheers!