Whiteline Springs?

[CaptainCaveman]

Hi folks - new member here...

Bought a LY 2011 Clio 200 Cup in October after selling my MK7 Golf R, and spent the last few months refreshing it. Fitted new discs/pads, all suspension arms/knuckes, cam belt, spark plugs, engine & gearbox mounts, shocks, H&R springs and Meg RS 18" wheels with 255 tyres (yes they fit perfectly)!

The only thing that I hate is the H&R springs. I'm used to a firm ride, as I often run coilovers, but what's doing my nut in is the high speed bounciness. I'm literally being bounced out of my seat over high speed bumps, which is plain ridiculous, and something Ive never experienced on any modded car.

What I think it is, is by H&R reducing the spring travel by 30mm on the front, the progressive spring is quickly getting into the hard end of the spring rate, where the damper is unable to cope with the increased spring rate, hence the bounciness.

I've noticed that more sensible suspension companies, i.e. Eibach and Whiteline only offer a 15mm drop on the front, as the suspension travel is so important to maintain control, otherwise they would have dropped it more if there was enough available travel.

So the question is - does anyone have experience of the Whiteline springs for the Clio 200? I assume they should be top notch, as Whiteline products are highly regarded in the Jap Tuning scene, and they are firmly placed as 'handling' experts.

I'm hoping that they might just do the trick over the H&Rs? Any thoughts?

Great forum BTW!

 

[CaptainCaveman]

Blimey, quiet in here! 21 views and no comments - come on ladies, don't be shy

 

[Johnny 99]

Blimey, quiet in here! 21 views and no comments - come on ladies, don't be shy

Can't comment on Whiteline springs, but I am very happy with my Cooksport springs. It is a 30mm drop all round but everything I read says they're much more compliant than H&R. To me the Cooksports feel much like the Cup springs in general driving, but when you press on or get on track the car corners much flatter.

 

[peter]

... H&R springs and Meg RS 18" wheels with 255 tyres (yes they fit perfectly)!

would love to see photos of this set up. 255/30 or 255/35?

 

[CaptainCaveman]

would love to see photos of this set up. 255/30 or 255/35?

They're 255/35/18 on 18x8 Megane RS rims with +68 offset mate. Overall diameter is about 2% smaller than stock 215/45/17, so no rubbing issues. I've actually fitted 10mm spacer on rear and 5mm spacer on front too. Will get pics when the rain stops

 

[CaptainCaveman]

...I am very happy with my Cooksport springs.

Thx for the reply. I wonder what it is about the H&R that makes them so bouncy then, if yours give the same 30mm drop? I assumed it was the reduced travel of the shorter spring meant that the hardest part of the spring was being reached during big compressions, but if yours are fine, then that wipes out that theory??

 

[Big Ben]

Could the springs or shocks be faulty?

Possibly the wheel tyre combo is giving grief(never heard or seen that combo!)

Just throwing out ideas. When you say high speed bumps are we talking road legal speeds or private race track?

 

[imprezaworks]

At a guess I would have said shocks. I ran h&r on my previous 182 for about 18 months. Albeit not a 200 I found them to be excellent

 

[CaptainCaveman]

Could the springs or shocks be faulty?
When you say high speed bumps are we talking road legal speeds or private race track?

All the dampers are brand new 200 Cup ones, so definitely not them. Tyres won't make any difference, as it's the the way the damper is struggling to control the rebound momentum caused by the harder spring compressing over bumps, combined with the lack of travel I'm guessing. I'm talking motorway speeds - roads round here are shocking tbh, which doesn't help!

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm kinda unsure what to do, as the Whitelines are normally a good option in my experience of the brand, as they're quite a serious 'handling' specialist, but the spring rates they run on the Clio are possibly the hardest I've seen; 4.7kg/mm (263lb/in) front and 6.2kg/mm (347lb/in) rear, which is pretty hardcore!

Maybe the Eibachs, but don't want a soft setup either. Firm is fine, as long as it's controlled...

 

[Mark_L]

My 197 Cup has h&r's, haven't had any issue's myself.
I'm running 8x17 et35 with but only 215's!

Have you tried a different set of wheels just to rule it out?

The firms van had a pulling to the left problem changed two wheels around after changing all sorts of suspension parts and tracking etc and it cured it!

I know it's a different issue but worth a try??

 

[kmxgoon]

Could just be the crap roads. on a stand cup setup with new shocks, I get bounced about on the B roads around here.

 

[CaptainCaveman]

Have you tried a different set of wheels just to rule it out?

I had the original Cup wheels on the car when I bought it, only changed the wheels recently. I fitted the H&Rs after buying the car, and the ride definitely got worse then. The std Cup springs were firm yes, but nowhere near as bouncy!??

BTW - the extra grip and steering weight with the 255 tyres is amazing. No detrimental effect at all, and they look friggin awesome. Don't look out of place in the slightest.

 

[RSRowe]

I think the wheel setup isn't helping here.
Yes the H&R do ride hard, but I don't find it unbearable.... Do you have any stock wheels you could try on it before spending more money replacing stuff?

A set of Cooksport or Eibach springs will soften things up alot for you.

 

[CaptainCaveman]

The wheels made no difference tbh bud. I was running stock Cup 17" wheels before and there was no difference, just lots less grip, lighter steering and very puny looking skinny tyres that looked very lost under the massive arches!

I don't really want to 'soften' the ride, I just want to lose the bounciness. I prefer the handling and steering response of a firmer setup, so don't want to lose that with soft springs. I'm hoping it's mainly the reduced travel that is the issue - but hard to know definitively.

 

[suj]

So I have the same experience in driving and passengering in H&R springs on cup dampers, I don't know how people run them on the road!
So I opted for Eibach springs with standard (non-cup) dampers, it's such a better ride! So I don't think you are alone, a few of us have noticed the same. I have no experience on Whiteline on my Clio, but I have had their stuff on my 200sx and they were great, but I can give good praise on the Eibach springs.

 

[CaptainCaveman]

...I don't know how people run them on the road!...

Thanks, yep I am coming to similar conclusion. This is a good thread with similar verdicts from a few years back on the 197:

https://www.renaultsport.co.uk/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=60455

 

[Bryanclio200]

Would love to see some pictures of the wheel setup!

 

[suj]

Thanks, yep I am coming to similar conclusion. This is a good thread with similar verdicts from a few years back on the 197:

https://www.renaultsport.co.uk/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=60455

I live in Birmingham aka it's a Pothole....of a city lol.
Also I drive ~75miles a day, I don't mind it being a bit stiffer, but not like you said bouncing round!

 

[CaptainCaveman]

Here you go. 255/35/18 tyres with 5mm spacer front and 10mm spacer rear. IMHO they look like they were made for the car. Looks completely OEM to me.

 

[CaptainCaveman]

So…. I’ve spoken to H&R in Germany, and they have suggested that if the car is bouncy over bumps, then it sounds like the spring is compressing too much and allowing the damper to bottom out and hit its bump-stops. When you think about it, this makes sense and explains why most of the other respected suspension companies (Eibach, Whiteline, Grams etc) either spec longer springs or higher spring rates, to stop the damper from bottoming out.


If you compare the H&R spring rates to the stock Cup spring rates, you can see that despite the big 30mm reduction in travel on the H&R springs, the front spring rates are actually SOFTER than stock, meaning that the reduction in spring length, added to the softer spring is highly likely to make the damper bottom out on bumps!


Comparison on spring rates here:


STND CUP FRONT - 224.8 lb/in (4.02kg/mm)
STND CUP REAR - 260 lb/in (4.65kg/mm)


H&R FRONT – 211 lbs/inch (3.8kg/mm)
H&R REAR – 302 lbs/inch (5.4kg/mm)
30mm drop F&R


WHITELINE FRONT – 263.1 (4.7kg/mm)
WHITELINE REAR – 347.1 lbs/inch (6.2kg/mm)
15mm front. 20mm rear


GRAMS FRONT - 251lb/in (4.5kg/mm)
GRAMS REAR - 51N/mm, 291lb/in, 5.2kg/mm
30mm F&R


EIBACH FRONT – 182-308 lbs/in (3.2-5.5 kg/mm)
EIBACH REAR – 154-257 lbs/in (2.7-4.6 kg/mm)
15MM FRONT 25MM REAR


Interesting to see that the H&R spring rates are actually softer on the front than stock. Combine that with a shorter spring and it’s obvious why the car is bouncy – it must spend half the time hitting the bumpstops and bouncing off them!