UltraRed 200 FF CUP - Weekend warrior

[deekay16v]

I have bought this chap last year, few weeks before x-mass.

- 2011 Full Fat Cup
- Full leather interior with standard seats, Tom Tom Carminat
- 87000km

Car has some cosmetics and few technical bits to solve, but they are now quite hard to get and expensive here in central europe.
It will be my weekend warrior for B-roads bashing, so hopefully future mods will go to the right direction.

Right after purchase, filters and fluids were changed:
Motor oil: ELF 900SXR 5w-40
Transmission oil: Motul Motylgear 75w-80
Brake fluid: Motul RBF600

All work will be done by my friend, who owns an independent garage.

 

[deekay16v]

First upgrades:

- MAP holder
- upper torque arm powerflex
- Sabelt 330mm steering wheel with OMP steering wheel hub (We will see if it is ok or too small. I have also some old leather 350mm MOMO V35 from 1989 lying around to test it )





and some box of fun, mainly from KAM racing



Will probably need to get some bucket seat. I am too thin even for recaro CS, let alone standard seats with slippery leather
If you have any suggestions - seat, mounts etc. Also dunno, how to mount 4 point harness with rear seats in car.

 

[Chocice]

Did the map sensor holder do anything? love these in red

 

[deekay16v]

Did the map sensor holder do anything? love these in red

I don't think so. But I have never had any problems with MAP. It is just a precaution - less vibration, less likely to worn o-rings, that seals it.

 

[deekay16v]

The saga continues

Rear brakes complete overhaul.
HEL braided lines front and rear.
Rear stub axle spacers.
Whiteline rear axle bushes.
Powerflex gearbox mount insert.
Mishimoto carbon gear knob (I really hate the way Renault designed gear knob connection...rubbery and wobbly...so it is now tapped to M10x1.5)

 

[Chocice]

I don't think so. But I have never had any problems with MAP. It is just a precaution - less vibration, less likely to worn o-rings, that seals it.

I got one too, the placebo effect of fitting it makes me think its reduced judder.

 

[deekay16v]

Quick wrenching after dinner.
B-G racing 40mm steering wheel spacer. Unfortunatelly, they have sent me wrong screws (40mm countersunk ) . But I managed to find some black buttonhead torx from MTB brake discs They even came with threadlock applied.

 

[deekay16v]

New tire day



And met another red small hothatch at my local garage ))

 

[deekay16v]

After few rides on new tires, i had to change my nice 330mm sabelt steering wheel to old 350mm Momo V35. For b road bashing, where it looks more like a rally stage, than circuit, the circumference of sabelt seems to be to small Tried momo today and 350 is probably spot on (where original steering wheel was too big)
How do you cope with smallish wheels guys? On the track with bucket seat and harness it would be probably fine.

Sad photo:

 

[deekay16v]

Well got myself a seat I am not completely sure about the fit, I am 197cm, under 70kg, but have reasonably "chunky" legs from cycling, and also quite broad back.
When I see how this seat (Sabelt GT3 btw) is chosem by people who weights 90kg....
The thing is, Sparco rev I cannot almost get my arse in. Sparco EVO I, I can fit but I feel like it kind of constricts me at my shoulders and what is worse. its too narrow at leg opening.
Well lets see when its in a car.
What also concerns me is the heignt of the shoulder slots. Lower edge is a bit higher then my arms. I have apparently short torso and longer neck. With HANS it would be probably spot on, but I do not plan it for now and I plan to use 4point harness sometimes even when boroad bashing.
When we had photoshoot yesterday, with my friend, I was sliding left and right with standard seat and 3 point

So I need to get some stiff to mount it tho.
Probably will want to retain runners. At least until i dial everything out.

What subframe, runners, side mounts to get then? I have read OMP sbframe is shitty, but resonably low. There is a sparco one, that is quite favourite here.

And need to sort out, how to mount inner lower harness. I want to retain 3 point also. And add 4 point.
I cannot see any viable solution for now. Some brackets for other brands have thread for anchoring original 3 point mount buckle, but not the clio one.

 

[deekay16v]

Some pictures from yesterday
I also quite struggle with new GY Eagle F1 Assymetric 6.
They suppose to be more sporty than PS4 but I can overwhelm the sidewall quite seasily I think.
Running them 34F 31R, theyre very combfortable, but I would say too spongey. Running them harder and you can feel they have stopped to key into asphalt just by turning the wheel. They start to slide a bit, car feels more nervous.
Well, they are still street tire tho, but I have expected a bit more I think. And i have even XL version.

 

[deekay16v]

Quite a long time since last update....

After rear brakes have been done, it was time fot fronts.

- Brembo HC
- Ferodo DS2500.

To complement the rear 10mm axle spacers, I have added 16mm HR hubcentric spacers to front. Stance looks much better now and I like how it transformed driving too.



And since standard seats ale like riding on a big couch, it was time to solve it too.

- Sabelt GT3
- Sparco Clio 3 specific console
- Fia side mounts
- Wheeler motorsport steering wheel lowering kit

Well, this was a bit of faff. Sparco consoles did not put the seat exactly in line with the steering wheel, so modifications to console and side mounts were needed. Also added FIA threaded backing plate to the inner side of the seat console, to accomodate standard safety belt lock.

Instalation of Josh Wheeler kit was then straightforward and I would say, it is one of the must have mods. Kudos to Josh for coming with such a nice mod.

I now sit reasonably low (can go even one hole on sidemounts lower) and have steering wheel where ai want to have it. I have adjusted it to the lowes setting (I had to force it a bit because plastic trim on the column hits the lower dashboard trim. But as my friend said. It wont rattle at least
Seating position is now loke it should be from a factory.




Aaaaand finished position after testing

 

[deekay16v]

Guess I should put here some recent updates.
After quick romance with Eibach springs, I have decided they do not fit my driving style and gone H&R route... and those I quite like
- So I am on H&R and new CUP shocks allround.
- Also have 16mm H&R wheel spacers allround (Car sits now very nice in my opinion)
- Steering wheel is now dished Sabelt SW-465.
- I have also changed gearknob to my old trusty OMP (white round delrin thing), which is not that nice as carbon Mishimoto one, but works better for me.
- Due to the extreme rattling, I have gutted my pre-cat...and this is where the fun starts.
Car feels much better except... it sometimes try to stall (when stopping at traffic lights), and then hesitates and misfires, especially cold. When driving, there are no apparent problems. Will try to flash stg1 map I have received with RStuner, but since I dont have AC plug where I park, I have to go to my friends garage and borrow car battery charger to flash it.

 

[Marsch]

Like you presumably know I'm also running Cup dampers with H&Rs. I also like them but going to switch to something else soon. The only disadvantage of that combo in my book is the slight "bumpsteer" you mentioned elsewhere and that they're starting to "stutter" on rougher surfaces. But that's not too bad and far from dangerous or unacceptable. From what I was told the actual problem of the H&Rs is that they're limiting the "working area" of the Cup dampers which can't unfold their full potential this way.

 

[deekay16v]

Yes I am aware you drive the same setup as me
Bumpsteer is "lowering" thing, not just H&R thing, so you wont mitigate it just by buying coilovers. But I would not say it is a big problem in this casse.
Stuttering is not that bad compared to a CUP chassis. I would argue that it is very similar. CUP shocks are quite a bit "lively" tuned. H&R springs do not feel that much harder (just theory, someone would need to measure spring force diagrams for both), so when you push the wheel with some force, shocks will travel similar amount as with the CUP.
I would also say, that damping in CUP shocks is solely velocity based, so they do not depend on the "zone" they work in. (as long as it is within their usable travel).

Wonder if there is anyone, who can shed some light into this long time debate by giving some real numbers. And by numbers I mean measurement, not "catalogue" spring stifness charts.

 

[deekay16v]

Upgraded map to RStuner STG1 today and from the quick ride it seems it have adressed the issue with precat removal. Hopefully it lasts.

 

[Marsch]

The infos I got are coming from people that are racing Clios, are mechanics of such teams and/or are tracking their cars extensively and/or are driving them at least "spiritely". The general tenor is that the H&Rs are limiting the "travel" of the Cup dampers too much and the shocks will therefore only use the lower/end range. I guess there's a reason the F1 engineers from Renault have set up the suspension like they did. Besides that I also was told that this setup can cause the dampers to wear out faster than normally.

About the bumpsteer. I've ordered a V3 clubsport that I want to have set to the actual height my car sits now and will report back on that if it's installed. My guess is there won't be much if any bumpsteer. That's partially based on the feedback I got in a Clio that was running said suspension.

 

[deekay16v]

I got the theory, but I would like to see some measurements from shock dyno vs spring rates. Btw renault suspension is like this, becausse it needs to be usable for big part of customers. And also there are some rules they need to comply to be road legal.
For example spacers (ET) discussion. Road legal clio has ET68, group N rally cars (Access R3) run ET51. So ppl who do not like spacers, would not like behavior of that rally car too, presumably Standard CUP suspension is really great as is for spirited b road bashing, like somebody has written here.
Something like KW or GAZ Gold etc will be better. It would be sad, If they are not, given the price Shame thay I could not try everything

Bumpsteer is a mechanical geometry (lowering) thing and not suspension thing, so lets see how it works out for you. But to be honest I do not find bumpsteer excessive, just slight. Far from nuisiance.

 

[deekay16v]

Small update. On nice to mediocre roads, HR and CUP combo is very nice, very engaging and fun to drive. I had to change a front to rear tyre pressure bias, but i like it very much so far. Also STG1 RStuner map feels smoother through the revs (but could be just feeling, I dunno if it is actually faster)

Nice weather today so food shopping trip took a bit longer LOL

 

[S24nrc]

Love H&R with 197 spec Cup shocks on mine, so much confidence on the roads I actually drive the car on. Considered changing to coilover's but big jump in maintenance, complexity and cost when I'm already happy with what I have.