Track focused geo settings

[av4625]

You know what shims you need ?

I got the geo done about a year and a half or so ago and still have the printout of what it is currently like, but was going to wait until i got the geo done again to get the current settings and then buy the correct shims

 

[suj]

I got the geo done about a year and a half or so ago and still have the printout of what it is currently like, but was going to wait until i got the geo done again to get the current settings and then buy the correct shims

Yep you will need to get it to the height you want on the Gaz, then get your alignment sorted to see what shims you need.
If it's more track i'd say definitely lean towards 3degrees maybe even slightly more.

 

[av4625]

Yep you will need to get it to the height you want on the Gaz, then get your alignment sorted to see what shims you need.
If it's more track i'd say definitely lean towards 3degrees maybe even slightly more.

yea thats the plan! Didn’t know if 3 was too much. Think ill just go with 3 if your suggesting 3 or more

 

[suj]

yea thats the plan! Didn’t know if 3 was too much. Think ill just go with 3 if your suggesting 3 or more

Yeah I think 3 for more track and less road (can still use it on road, I meant if you're setting up for more "fast road") @PITA is running 3.5 (but not sure he's been on track since being on that much?)

It's all down to preference also, as some people like running less, then variables like the spring stiffness you setup etc.

 

[Beany]

Mines running just over -3 and it’s a killer on the road.. -2.5 is enough for ok on track and driveable on the roads

 

[PITA]

Yeah I think 3 for more track and less road (can still use it on road, I meant if you're setting up for more "fast road") @PITA is running 3.5 (but not sure he's been on track since being on that much?)

It's all down to preference also, as some people like running less, then variables like the spring stiffness you setup etc.

3.5 around donny on Direzzas was awesome. The road on PS4 - not so much.

 

[John Gordon]

You'd have to be really leaning on the car to get the most out of a tyre with 3.5 camber in my opinion. I can't see many of us on here generating that much lateral load on track.

 

[av4625]

when running 3.5 on the road does it wander or is it just that it has no grip?

 

[John Gordon]

when running 3.5 on the road does it wander or is it just that it has no grip?

Mine wanders at 2.6, so I'm going with a hard yes. You're only running on part of the tyre so much smaller contact patch

 

[R20BTG]

Mine is twitchy on the road but amazing on track


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[PITA]

when running 3.5 on the road does it wander or is it just that it has no grip?

It hops around a bit, but it’s not too bad. I wouldn’t run it like this for a daily driver

 

[R20BTG]

Likewise, mine is 98% track car, gets trailered to circuit, only time I drive on the road is for fuel, or to take it to my mates garage to tweak something.

I wouldn’t run this geometry on the road, I’d never generate anywhere near enough lateral load to use the outside edges of the tyres and it’s too fidgety on uneven surfaces.


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[John Gordon]

Likewise, mine is 98% track car, gets trailered to circuit, only time I drive on the road is for fuel, or to take it to my mates garage to tweak something.

I wouldn’t run this geometry on the road, I’d never generate anywhere near enough lateral load to use the outside edges of the tyres and it’s too fidgety on uneven surfaces.


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Do you run slicks on track?

 

[R20BTG]

Do you run slicks on track?

Yep


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[R20BTG]

Be aware that the Cup Race cars were on slicks and could tolerate significantly more camber that a treaded tyre. Also the tyres were not on for very long. On the plus side the cars are not desperately powerful and don't have "VTech Yo" sudden dollops of power. You are also doing sprits which will keep tyre temps in check. Significant camber (and amounts of toe out) concentrates heat on the inner edge of the tyre on exit from corners and can lead to over heating. (Should not be an issue in your case) but be aware. Buying a tyre temp probe is the very best way to know what is going on.

You'd have to be really leaning on the car to get the most out of a tyre with 3.5 camber in my opinion. I can't see many of us on here generating that much lateral load on track.

I was pottering about in my garage earlier and took the photographs below. These are 225/45/17 R888R in the GG compound. They were inflated to approx. 33-34psi hot. They've done approx 100 miles of hard work at Donington. Ambient temperatures on the day varied between 10-14c at a guess. The tyres are stacked on top of one another facing the same way, which means the top edge of the tyre is the outer edge in all instances. I haven't marked on which tyres were front and which were rear which I probably should have done.

My geometry is close to Cup Racer spec (3.5 deg camber up front, 2.5 deg rear, slight toe in, slightly higher ride height).





Whilst I'm no expert, here are my observations from these tyres:

• Dark blue areas I understand to be areas of high temperatures. There is a dark blue band around the top of each tyre. Therefore the outside edges are still working hard.
• Tyre pressures look about right because I'm not getting too much rolling of the shoulder.
• The inner edges of the tyres do not seem to be working hard at all. The tread looks almost untouched. To me this suggest the camber is good, it could perhaps take even more to get the inner edges working harder.
• It's generating plenty of lateral movement to make the use of the camber, and that's only semi-slicks. Full slicks would be even more pronounced.
• It confirms to me that the Cup Racer geo setup is actually a really good baseline for track use.

 

[av4625]

Thanks for this! I run R888R's as well.
When you say slight toe in, do you mean the rear?

 

[R20BTG]

Sorry, getting terminology confused.
Negative toe = toe out
Positive toe = toe in

Front
Camber = -3 degrees 10 minutes
Castor = +6 degrees 20 minutes
Toe = - 0 degrees 10 minutes

Rear
Camber = - 2 degrees 30 minutes
Castor = N/A
Toe = +0 degrees 10 minutes

 

[av4625]

Sorry, getting terminology confused.
Negative toe = toe out
Positive toe = toe in

Front
Camber = -3 degrees 10 minutes
Castor = +6 degrees 20 minutes
Toe = - 0 degrees 10 minutes

Rear
Camber = - 2 degrees 30 minutes
Castor = N/A
Toe = +0 degrees 10 minutes

Thanks again, that makes a lot of sense, might aim for similar!

 

[John Gordon]

I got curious after looking at your pics. Here's my fronts I had to replace for the MOT.

My settings are further up the thread.

This is after two track day's at Zaandvoort.

 

[John Gordon]

View attachment 145564

I'm also no expert, so I don't want to come across as a nob. But from what I do know, the feathery rubber is graining. This happens because the tyre does not get into its working range. I think you'd gain to lower the pressure. I usually start a few psi below recommended book pressures.

This helps with a bit of info...

Toyo Tires Set-up Advice

Set-up Advice for Toyo Tyres

www.toyo.co.uk