The Quest For Power (lets mass-debate)

[fmp]

So i thought i would start a topic of debate.

Power..... quite often there is a post asking what exhaust is best for power, or that someone has xxxx pounds to spend on the engine.

Most of the time this is to an otherwise standard car.

In my many years of tuning, for more speed, i always start with the chassis. Brakes and suspension are top of the list. Once they are totally sorted, if the car still isnt 'fast' enough, then the quest for more power starts.

Is it that people feel the Clio's chassis in standard for is more than up to the job of a few extra bhp?

Or is it that saying your car has a lower centre of gravity, stiffer spring rates, 2 degrees of negative camber isnt quite as impressive as 'i got a claimed extra 5bhp from my air filter'?

What are your thoughts on the route people take, why a lot of the time the engine is the first thing to get spent on, when in reality, if you want to go 'faster', decent brakes, tyres and suspension will see you cover ground a lot quicker than a set of cams, exhauast, filter and remap would!

Discuss!

 

[Paul]

PB.200 hit the nail on the head the other week IMO. The best way to accelerate, brake and corner harder is to invest heavily in new, stickier rubber. You can tune the engine brakes and suspension as much as you like but if you put DitchFinder 3000's on you aren't going to go any faster...

 

[fmp]

very true, if one part is substandard, it can ruin the good work of other components.

But then people are sometimes driven by costs, which again is another factor.

Would most of us be able to tell the difference between a Toyo 888 and a Yokohama A048R..... yet the Yoko's cost more.

 

[Willis]

Every car I've had, I've always sorted the tyres, brakes and suspension out first.

Once they're sorted I think you get a better indication of if the chassis is CAPABLE of handling more power. Some aren't, some are. I think the Clio is.

I also think the standard braking setup on the Clio is better than anything I've paid big money for on other cars, even OEM Pads & Discs can take severe track abuse, the only change I'm making in that respect is a set of HEL Braided Hoses, something I always change for durability reasons as much as performance although I've changed the fluid to Millers Race Fluid too and haven't suffered an ounce of fade.

The suspension is probably as good as anything I've ever paid for too, albiet I'd like a little less ride heigt and a little more stiffnes, which is why I'm planning on Cup dampers and Eibach springs in a month or two. I can't justify the cost of coilovers when compared to the 0.001 of a second a lap I'd get extra on a trackday. I'm contemplating an LSD though because I know how much of a difference they make having had one on a previous car, it was a different beast to the 197 though but I'm sure the effect will be similar.

The best money you can spend on going faster around a track is £30 on some tuition in my opinion.

 

[GrumpyTwig]

Money no object there's a lot you could do, on a reasonable spend brakes/tyres and maybe some coilovers are about the only reasonable mods you can do for overall speed.

Even then that might cost £2k.

People just like chasing numbers and in the car world the main yard stick has become BHP rather than lap times.

 

[MikeLYR27]

Coilover make a massive difference! Ive got 888's waiting to go on, so with mine being charged it should take it in its stride. The brakes can be improved but standard they are good, ive just uprated the pads and put dot 5 fluid in and they are storng. I did my suspension 1st thing! But the clio can easily handle more power.

 

[Foxspeed]

in the "real world" the 197 or 200 for that matter is fast enough....full stop :hug1:

....its the driver thats not good enough

 

[mbk197]

If only putting 888's on my 197 could make up the deficit of 130bhp between mine and my mate's 200sx..

 

[PB.200]

If only putting 888's on my 197 could make up the deficit of 130bhp between mine and my mate's 200sx..

It might do!

I was quicker than some much more powerful cars at curborough sprint track.

 

[Paul]

Depends on the circumstances but 130bhp can be nothing or everything - the point I was making was that bhp is just a figure, getting what you have on to the tarmac is more important than upping the bhp...

 

[Rick197]

The best money you can spend on going faster around a track is £30 on some tuition in my opinion.

+1 . i reckon that there are alot of track day goes out there that could benefit from this, maybee to adjust their lines or just get a smoother driving style.

 

[Gandy]

do they do this at Oulton Park??

 

[Willis]

Yeah, Paul O'Neill is on of the instructors there too on MSV days. With MSV it's either £25 or £35 and Focused Events was £30 last time I was there. There's a couple of trackday companies that offer free tuition, it's booked on a first come first served basis when it's like that. Well worth the money, they normally spend around half an hour with you so it's plenty of time to pick their brains.

 

[DanT]

I agree with those that said sorting the suspension and brakes out is the first key step in going "faster".

My mods so far are pretty much all around these areas.

KW V1's - Great if your like me and want your Clio to handle well and yet be able to choose to go that little lower for looks.

TDF geo - Its just as important when installing new suspension to then have the car set up right in terms of geometry, TDF use some of the latest laser alignment equipment available.

TDF remap - Matt got me from 187hp to 193hp with 165ftlbs as some of you may have seen in my progress thread, to me its well worth doing. The Clio pulls noticeably harder up to the top end with shift light now coming on at 7100rpm. All through the rev range is smoothed out, that horrible flat spot is almost totally gone now with very minor if any cold start issues left behind. The best way i can describe it is that the Clio just feels more driveable in general but for certain unlike other mods you can do this is not a placebo effect.

4 x Conti Sport 2's - I went for these over Conti 3's that i was using on the basis that they have a slightly stiffer 91 rated tyre sidewall instead of the 87 on the Conti 3. Interestingly you do get more road feedback it seems but you will further sacrifice comfort i suppose - for me this has never been a problem. When i first got the Clio it had 2 Toyo Proxes on the front, the Continentals are a league above them for sure.

Mintex 1144's - A great fast road pad once heated up to operating temperature i have found. These are widely claimed to be good from cold but in all honesty i dont agree with this, i do think they need heating up more than others claim to start really working. That said, once they are up to temperature they feel amazing, thats using a the standard Brembo HC disk as standard.

Dot 5 fluid - Nothing fancy here just a change.

Goodridge braided lines - Definitely worth doing for better pedal feel once the pad is heated up. Pedal gives increased feedback over standard when the brake system is at "operating temperature" .



Although i have had cars with new exhaust systems on in the past and yes i will admit that when your onto a winner with a certain system they will sound awesome. I myself love the sound of the Clio standard though and would rather spend anywhere from £400 - £1200 on an exhaust in other areas........an awesome set of OZ or Speedline wheels for example........Compomotive anyone??

As others have said the Clio is a totally capable car in its standard form, further improved in my opinion with the Cup pack suspension (mine is currently for sale on eBay i might add:w00t and then even further improved with coilover suspension not just in handling and the way the car feels to drive now but also lets face it.......the way it looks!

Im definitely going to be on the look out for a new set of wheels in future as my next big mod!

Thats my 2 cents anyway

 

[litchy]

As wife says....Boys with Toys. We change stuff cause we can and most will make little to no difference with day to day driving. I love messing about with the clio, changing stuff, trying different things (even if they make it worst), ebayin' and finding stuff on the cheap. This clio's been the most fun I've had for years but unfortunately like most have found, the package is a good one to start with, and with limited things to do (thats why all our cars look the same) and before it starts getting expensive (£1300 for cams)!!!!, it doesn't take long before you get bored and move on. I've done to the clio in 6 months, what its taken me 4 years to do with other cars. Nothing to do with this brill little car, just I'm running out of things to tinker with......Would love coilovers, cams and stuff but its 'the food chain'...I have to wait till others have finished, got bored or circumstance changes...and watch the for sale section\ebay\pistionheads very closely......