Subframe issues

[kipperfeet]

hi all. Further to my previous posts the problem now appears to be with my subframe somehow, no matter how tight i tighten the bolt on the wishbone bush the bush still moves side to side slightly. i have read in other posts that the metal sleeve in the bush should be bolted tight in between the subframe . i have ordered the washers turkie172 mentioned. thanks for the info. i have since found out the elongated hole is normal on one side. this is a picture of the subframe bush mounting i am talking about. i have also tried loosening the bolts going for a spin and then retightening bolts with car sat on floor.
any advice greatly appreciated.

 

[Sibbers]

Are you able to tell if the bolt moves or if it's the bush that is compressing? Or something else that is connected to? Given you have (2) new wishbones and they give the same effect I am pretty stumped at what could solve this, but I don't see how it could be the subframe (or the slotted bolt holes).

 

[R27WTF]

I have a few subframes here want me to measure the gap and check the holes?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kipperfeet]

I have a few subframes here want me to measure the gap and check the holes?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi R2. i dont really need the bolt hole sizes. from the picture above the bolt fits snugly in the hole. i just want to confirm that the mk3 subfame holes are elongated.
bit of an update. i have had the car on the ramp and loosened the wishbone bolts. ive the got the crowbar in and moved the wishbone to where the previous bolts were tightened and then ive tightened everything up. ive also put a bit of spray paint over the bolts and washers to confirm the bolt isnt moving about. im gonna run it for a few weeks then get it back on the ramp, and see if anythings moved.

 

[Sibbers]

Did you check once everything was tightened up that there was no play?

I decided to take a look at mine and they seem more worn than yours, yet when all done back up the bolt does not move at all. The bush inside the wishbone compresses a little bit with force, but no play.

I was wondering if maybe the subframe to wishbone mounts (and bushes) showed any movement and could explain things? Edit - here’s a link so you know what I’m on about: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/273632772093

Interested to know how you’ve got on and wether or not it affects your perception of ride quality.

 

[kipperfeet]

Did you check once everything was tightened up that there was no play?

I decided to take a look at mine and they seem more worn than yours, yet when all done back up the bolt does not move at all. The bush inside the wishbone compresses a little bit with force, but no play.

I was wondering if maybe the subframe to wishbone mounts (and bushes) showed any movement and could explain things? Edit - here’s a link so you know what I’m on about: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/273632772093

Interested to know how you’ve got on and wether or not it affects your perception of ride quality.

that drawing on the ebay posting is not like my set up. the arm bolts to the other side of the wishbone bush on mine. if you get what i mean. the car drives spot on . no bumps or bangs , tyres arent scrubbed and it handles great. steady as a rock at speed as well.

 

[Sibbers]

You'll have that connector/bush, but it's not connected to the wishbone - it'll be in front of the front horizontal wishbone bolt and you'd see it either when you lower the rad support rail or pull back the wheel arch liner. Mine is pretty much solid, but if they stat to wear I don't know where you feel play - they aren't massive bushes so dunno how much force they go under.

Good that you have no drive-able symptoms. Kinda makes me wonder if the normal expected compliance in the wishbone bush was what the MOT tester thought was play unless you saw it yourself, but I'm not an expert with these cars and am still figuring out whats under there - the way these things are put together is all a bit french!

 

[kipperfeet]

You'll have that connector/bush, but it's not connected to the wishbone - it'll be in front of the front horizontal wishbone bolt and you'd see it either when you lower the rad support rail or pull back the wheel arch liner. Mine is pretty much solid, but if they stat to wear I don't know where you feel play - they aren't massive bushes so dunno how much force they go under.

Good that you have no drive-able symptoms. Kinda makes me wonder if the normal expected compliance in the wishbone bush was what the MOT tester thought was play unless you saw it yourself, but I'm not an expert with these cars and am still figuring out whats under there - the way these things are put together is all a bit french!

i was looking at the wrong bush. that bush connects from bottom of inner wing to subframe wishbone mounting. i cant imagine that affecting the wishbone bush. but it might be worth a look. your elongated hole is just like mine i think. so thanks for confirming they are all supposed to be like that. even mot inspector said the holes looked odd when i showed him the pictures.

 

[kipperfeet]

Did you check once everything was tightened up that there was no play?

I decided to take a look at mine and they seem more worn than yours, yet when all done back up the bolt does not move at all. The bush inside the wishbone compresses a little bit with force, but no play.

I was wondering if maybe the subframe to wishbone mounts (and bushes) showed any movement and could explain things? Edit - here’s a link so you know what I’m on about: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/273632772093

Interested to know how you’ve got on and wether or not it affects your perception of ride quality.

hi sibbers. i have replaced this bush but the plot thickens even more. check out the pics. ive never seen a bolt so sloppy in a bush. the old bush was identical in hole sizes. and to be fair there was very little play when i put the old bush in the vice and give it a wiggle.

 

[Sibbers]

Weird. That seems totally wrong! I’ve not replaced mine so not totally sure what they do but I guess the play in the wishbone returned? Did your painted bolts give any indication of movement or is it just the case those pattern parts have more compliance in? Gotta admit that I’m out of ideas and the only thing I could think that might work would be poly bushes in the arms of the bolts themselves aren’t the problem.

 

[kipperfeet]

Weird. That seems totally wrong! I’ve not replaced mine so not totally sure what they do but I guess the play in the wishbone returned? Did your painted bolts give any indication of movement or is it just the case those pattern parts have more compliance in? Gotta admit that I’m out of ideas and the only thing I could think that might work would be poly bushes in the arms of the bolts themselves aren’t the problem.

the bolts dont move. when i jack the car up and rock the pass side wheel the front bush rubber moves a bit. i think now its got to be normal. i have replaced everything now. by the way sibbers what tyres have you got on yours. im on 225 45 17 proxes and when going to full lock the tyres just catch the arch liners. does anyone else get this .

 

[Sibbers]

215/45/17 for me so no rubbing. I don’t know what proxes are like but some tyre makes are bigger than others even with the same numbers - lots of people run 225’s.

I also have some movement in the same bush and the bolts stay still. It is a bit weird so I’m tempted to go poly but can’t be bothered yet. Future me can do that

 

[kipperfeet]

I am going to wait till the next mot and see what happens. cheers for the help sibbers.

 

[Sibbers]

Just to let you know dude, I switched out the front bush on the arm with a powerflex black type and it doesn’t move at all anymore. No harshness in ride or noise either, just works like it’s supposed to.

The slotted hole is a red herring so ignore that, the bolt didn’t move it’s just a crappy bush. Handling is noticeably improved particularly at speed and on uneven roads.

 

[19Zen]

I see in your other thread that you used ebay/eurocarpart lower arms, have you tried a genuine Renault lower arm? I work in the trade and aftermarket lower arms are almost always a false economy even on standard cars, let alone a RS.

 

[Sibbers]

Could be, they were pattern parts in both our cases.

 

[Sibbers]

That said, the genuine Renault bushes I used for the engine mounts gearbox etc are all pretty soft and terrible. Would love to replace them with harder rubber parts.

 

[kipperfeet]

A bit of an update. It turns out the other side of that elogated hole in my first post is worn quite badly on the inside where i couldnt see. so even though everything looked and felt tight, i think the sleeve in the bush was moving about. the car has had the holes drilled out and a spacer and a steel plate welded to the mounting. ive also gone powerflex front and rear bushes, will put some pictures up if it all works out.

 

[kipperfeet]

just before i bought the car the flexis had been done on the manifold. im wondering if everything was not tightened up correctly. i have also found out that the steering rack wasnt very tight.

 

[Sibbers]

Interesting. The bolts didn’t move on mine at all, although this thread got me checking. The bush did move, and now with black poly bushes it doesn’t and the handling is massively improved so I’m confident you’re in for a treat.