Nitrogen in tyres

[iamdarren]

Just went to get my tyres filled with nitrogen. £10 for all round. Didn't come with green caps so ebay sourced some for £1.80. Should get free 6 month refills too. Seeing as they shouldn't even go flat.



Attached a pic if the wheels

 

[Willis]

Not bad mate, where was that from?

A friend of mine swears by it although I'm yet to try it myself.

 

[A2ON]

I've used it and found it bit of a palcebo - it was provided to me as a solutuion for tyre psi rising

Even at the ring where things get less heat than track days the tyres gained psi of over 5psi in one lap - however I did find once they had reached that "swell" even if I was to check them and then another lap back to back it was no more than the swelled temp so good and bad - having found that optimum it was easier to control less volatile spikes in pressure so I guess its good and bad as said before

 

[JamesS]

To the OP, unfortunately you've just wasted £11.80 of your money, I'm guessing based on some marketing bumph.

Filling your tyres with nitrogen won't bring you any noticeable benefits. For some reason you think that our tyres now won't go down. Seeing as air is 78% nitrogen anyway, that 22% extra nitrogen you're getting (which is probably not actually 22% because it didn't come bottled anyway) isn't going to stop your tyres going flat.

Also, you only put two thirds of your actual tyre pressure (assuming a tyre pressure of 2bar gauge) in as 'nitrogen' anyway. A true tyre pressure measurement is done in absolute tyre pressure (gauge pressure + atmospheric pressure). As you most likely didn't evacuate your tyres of atmospheric pressure and inflate them from a vacuum, you therefore have 1bar of standard air already in there.

If you wanted any real benefit, you would have had the air let out of your tyres in a humidity controlled environment (with minimal humidity to reduce the moisture content), and then if you'd let the air out quickly, removed any moisture build up around the inner valve area. You would have then inflated our tyres using dry air.

Unfortunately as is said at the start, you've just wasted £11.80 for no benefit.

 

[Fernandez]

Nitrogen is mostly used by Aircraft and in motorsport due to the reduced fluctuations in pressure because of temperature changes. Its standard practice in F1.

 

[JamesS]

Not correct about the Motorsport I'm afraid.

Nitrogen does not reduce pressure fluctuations. Removing moisture removes pressure fluctuations caused by temperature. Removing the moisture is usually a by-product of producing nitrogen for inflation, but most machines don't do this very well.

However, even dry air pressure is affected by temperature changes, but the changes are more controlled.

Dry air would be better for controlling pressure fluctuations due to temperature than nitrogen.

 

[Fernandez]

Not correct about the Motorsport I'm afraid.

So all these websites and engineers are talking **** then..

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/understanding_the_sport/5283.html

http://www.uniflate.com/formula-1-and-nitrogen-tyre-inflation

http://www.f1technical.net/articles/1

 

[JamesS]

So all these websites and engineers are talking **** then..

Have you read any of those articles properly?

Some quotes from them:
“Moisture in the air makes setting tyre pressures very difficult,” explains Tetsuro Kobayashi, Bridgestone Motorsport Technical Manager. “If you set the pressure in the pits with a cold tyre, or even one that’s been warmed by a tyre blanket, the pressure will be different when the tyre has been brought right up to full operating temperature. This happens even when we use dried air, but this happens in a more progressive and predictable manner than when there is moisture present. If there was moisture present then there would be different amounts in different tyres depending on when and how they were filled so it would be impossible to predict the pressure change and it would be difficult to engineer the tyres to deliver their maximum performance.”

"The name given to this nitrogen enriched dry air inflation gas is Uniflate."

As I said, it is the moisture in the air that creates the problems. Do you know what purging of tyres is and why this is done?

As for engineers talking ****, you're talking to an engineer who has designed and tested products that are used in Indy Car (every car on this year's grid), Le Mans (28 cars at the 24 hours running my kit), GT racing and F1. Trust me, I more than know what I'm talking about on this subject!

 

[Willis]

So... It's still going to be of some, if small, benefit for helping tyre pressures remain consistent because whatever way it's done the more Nitrogen in a tyre, the less moisture there will be? Although it will not be a perfectly moisture-less tyre, but then again, given the difficulty to get that it's a pipe dream to expect Kwik Fit or whoever to have a vacuum or humidity controlled environment anywhere on site!!!

 

[Fernandez]

I didn't say you were talking **** James, I simply asked if those articles were talking ****.

The fact is, and you have said it yourself, the problem with air is moisture. In laymens terms as nitrogen has less of an issue with moisture it is therefore better. Hence why its used in motorsport.

I'm not discounting your knowledge at all, I was simply pointing out that it does have its uses after you flamed the op for doing it. Granted it may not have a noticeable benefit on a road car but as A20n says he got a placebo effect and that's good enough in anyones book.

 

[Ashton]

I'm gonna fill mine with peanut butter for my next trackday. It's far more stable than air

 

[Fernandez]

I'm gonna fill mine with peanut butter for my next trackday. It's far more stable than air

:rofl: you could try Nutella too

 

[Willis]

Make sure you go for Smooth and not Chunky. It's what they use in NASCAR.

 

[CHUBBYSDAD]

£10 that's disgusting, Iv'e had from quickfit and another tyre place and both charged £1 a corner. With a reciept as well so not just cash.
I used to put it in all my cars, Gtr's even have it as std.
I put it in my Clio for the first time I was on track but after 10 mins. I had to let just as much out the tyre's as I would have if there had just been air in them so Iv'e given up.
I wouldn't bother with it.
J

 

[Mentalpen]

places such as costco put it in as standard, no idea if its any better and i haven't had tires from them since the 197 but i'm sure they say they use it as it is more stable.

 

[JamesS]

So... It's still going to be of some, if small, benefit for helping tyre pressures remain consistent because whatever way it's done the more Nitrogen in a tyre, the less moisture there will be?

Not necessarily. A good quality compressor installation should have a drier in it, reducing the moisture content. While a nitrogen system should reduce the moisture content due to the processes involved, it will not be moisture free, but may have less moisture in it than standard air. As you're not purging a tyre, no matter how dry the nitrogen, 30% of the air in the tyre will have the amount of humidity in it, in the local air on that day.

..... I was simply pointing out that it does have its uses after you flamed the op for doing it.

Flamed the op? All I did was point out the truth to the op. I didn't realise this counted as a flaming!

At the end of the day if people want to put it in, go right ahead, but you won't see any benefit on a road car such as a Clio.

Me, I'd rather spend the money on petrol and enjoy the car. If you want to spend £10 on something, buy a decent tyre pressure gauge and check and adjust your tyre pressures every week or two. You'll see far more benefit from this than putting in nitrogen!

 

[DrDx]

I had never considered that moisture in a tyre could cause pressure fluctuations but it makes perfect sense! Water vapour will form as temperatures rise and this water vapour will contribute to the total gas pressure within the tyre! The major components of air are all 'straightforward' gases (nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide, nitrogen oxide, argon etc) that will all behave slightly differently as temperature increases but the presence of volatile liquids (e.g. water) will introduce MORE gas into the warmer tyre... And I am a research chemist so why didn't I think of that before?!?

 

[Ashton]

So are we are agreed that nutella is best as I need to know before I order a crate of peanut butter?

 

[200 Gordini]

So are we are agreed that nutella is best as I need to know before I order a crate of peanut butter?

peanut butter is better, ive found the nutella tends to melt in to a syrup consistency when the tyres are up to temp

 

[Willis]

Marmalade, fine cut, is good as a tyre treatment and really adds some grip.