Lowering springs on a non cup pack 200?

[STROTT]

Hi Guys,

I am after a bit of advice from you ;/

I have a 200 without the cup pack and would like to know how (other than the actual lowering of the ride height) would the car differ from how it drives/rides/handles now if I had lowering springs e.g. as offered by Ktec fitted?

Many thanks,

Steve

 

[smoggy mark]

IMO the ride is a bit harder but not bad to winge about,handels a lot better and looks a lot better.

 

[STROTT]

I have heard that changing the springs and not the dampers is not a brill idea - is that the case?

What is the ideal amount to lower the car by?

Basically I am mainly thinking of changing due to looks 8) providing the ride isn't too much stiffer then it should be fine (had a cup pack 200 and had to sell as it was too stiff for me so need to make sure I don't go back there again!! )

 

[Duli]

it will be stiffer than your 200cup was, so i wouldnt change it if a cuped car was too stiff for you.

 

[ryan197]

Theres no way it will be stiffer than a standard cup. A little stiffer than standard maybe, but nowhere near the cup.

 

[BenW]

I had eibachs on my 197 full fat, ride was fractionly harder.

 

[Raptor6767]

I had the Eibach springs on my 197 and they were great on the normal/ideal road, however, on the bumpy road when driving REALLY hard, the rear is prone to "bounce" and oversteer.

I liked it, however.

Switched to KW V3 and it's default setup at first and it was like I was on airride - much comfier ride and the handling was better too.

 

[STROTT]

Many thanks for the feedback.

Personally I'd rather not pay out for KW V3 as they were an option I considered when I found the cupped 200 too stiff but the cost to change to a brand new non cup 200 was the same as buying and fitting the Kw's so went for a new car.

I also doubt I'd ever track the car and hence not get the full benefit from the Kw's and the car has only done just over 4000 miles so the non cup suspension is just run in!!

So a little confusion here!! are the eibachs going to be stiffer than a cupped 200?? I take it they will deffo make my 200 stiffer than a standard 197 seeing as the non cup 200 is softer than a 197 non cup set up in the first place??

I find the ride in a cupped twingo 133 ok so something similar to that would be an ideal setup for me!!

I am also wary that these may be too stiff and hence I may need to put the car back to standard and lowering springs will be less of a costly mod to remove!!

I'm guessing eibachs will be the best to go for as they lower the car less than the H and R's and hence should be softer??

 

[s22jgs]

both the eibachs and the H&R springs are progressive i beleive, so they will stiffen up the more you load them up.

If you put either on the FF dampers (as i am also doing very soon) there is no way it will be as harsh as the cup.

It will be a tiny bit stiffer, and you will feel pot holes more than standard springs, but essentially its the dampers that provide bump absorbtion.

personally i think it will be a perfect compromise between FF softness (not that its exactly soft anyway) and cup harshness.

 

[STROTT]

Thanks for that :biggrin: - have to say I am tempted to try some eibachs.

S22jgs - have you got a non cup pack 200 aswell?

 

[s22jgs]

Thanks for that :biggrin: - have to say I am tempted to try some eibachs.

S22jgs - have you got a non cup pack 200 aswell?

i do indeed. ive had my days of track days and driving on the edge with my old 172. i only got a 200 cos i like it and its fun to drive even without going nuts.

Im hopefully ordering my H&R springs this week, and having mark fish fit them sometime in June

 

[STROTT]

i do indeed. ive had my days of track days and driving on the edge with my old 172. i only got a 200 cos i like it and its fun to drive even without going nuts.

Im hopefully ordering my H&R springs this week, and having mark fish fit them sometime in June

Whats the reason for fitting the H & R's? (if you don't mind me asking) Looking at getting Ktec to fit any springs I do choose to try.

 

[s22jgs]

Whats the reason for fitting the H & R's? (if you don't mind me asking) Looking at getting Ktec to fit any springs I do choose to try.

mainly because i had H&R coilovers on my 172, and couldnt fault them.

Plus its the spring of choice for the cup racers.

And they drop the car by 30mm where as the eibachs drop it 25.

Where are you based mate? I would recommend mark fish for any work, including servicing. He is based in Harlow Essex

 

[STROTT]

I am based in Swindon.

How do you rate the handling of the non cup 200?

Is there a reason why you didn't get the cup pack on the 200?

Thing I find unusual is that the cup pack is very stiff yet only lowers the car by 7mm whereas the likes of the the H and r's drop the car 30mm but apparently will not be as stiff!! - must be to do with the tension in the springs used I suppose??!!

 

[s22jgs]

I am based in Swindon.

How do you rate the handling of the non cup 200?

Is there a reason why you didn't get the cup pack on the 200?

Thing I find unusual is that the cup pack is very stiff yet only lowers the car by 7mm whereas the likes of the the H and r's drop the car 30mm but apparently will not be as stiff!! - must be to do with the tension in the springs used I suppose??!!

I think ure getting a little confused about what provides the stiffness.
The springs provide stiffness in the corners mainly. the dampers provide stiffness in the ride quality.

Its not the fact that the cup springs are 7mm lower that makes them stiffer. they will have a thicker metal and different wind to make them stiffer. You could for example have a spring that was 30mm lower yet be much softer.

In terms of the handling i think its fine mate. a tiny bit more body roll than i would like, but in terms of the ride, i wouldnt want it much harder.

Which is why im going for springs on ff dampers. i want less body roll, and the better look of the car being lower without making it a whole lot harder by adding the cup dampers.

If my plans change and i want to start doing track days again then i will look at coilovers, but i dont think its worth it until the dampers are much older and worn out

 

[STROTT]

Thanks for clearing that up mate - you hear different things from different people!!!!

Basically I want to achieve the exact same as you - a little less body roll but very little additional stiffness and a lower stance for the car.

From what I can gather the H & R's are a little stiffer than the eibachs as they lower the car that little bit extra - dont think I want to lower the car more than 25mm as at times the 7mm lower ride height of the cup packed 200 was a bit low for some of the roads round here!!

Many thanks for your help, it is very much appreciated.

 

[walkie86]

Thanks for clearing that up mate - you hear different things from different people!!!!

...

From what I can gather the H & R's are a little stiffer than the eibachs as they lower the car that little bit extra...

Did you not just listen to what s22jgs said?! He just told you that the amount a spring lowers by doesn't doesn't correlate with how stiff it is!!!

 

[STROTT]

Did you not just listen to what s22jgs said?! He just told you that the amount a spring lowers by doesn't doesn't correlate with how stiff it is!!!

Yep!! I was just making a comment that may be wrong or right - As both brands are of the same price you could think that the materials used e.t.c. are very similar so the reason why the H&R's are stiffer is that they are a slightly shorter spring!! :eek: Probably not the case but hey ho!!

Generally I know nowt about this stuff and don't claim to hence why I asked for the opinion of people in the know and thanks to this great forum that is what I received.

 

[s22jgs]

The h&r will simply have a different wind, wire thickness maybe and just tuned differently

Height has no bearing. Other than in theory being lower than the eibachs you should get less roll. But with only 5mm difference I doubt I'd notice it

 

[STROTT]

Have you had yours fitted yet? I remember you mentioning that you hoped to have them fitted mid Juneish!!

Many thanks for your help and advice - all been very much appreciated