High mileage questions

[AdamH55]

Hi guys,

I'm new to the RS community, and will be looking to buy a 197 when lock down ends. With a budget of £3000ish I'm looking for a good daily that won't let me down.
What's everyone's experience of cars with 100,000 miles plus? Is the suspension shot to bits? And does the engine feel worn out? I know their revvy little things and haven't heard of any burning oil, are there any common problems with higher mileage cars?
Obviously the gearbox synchro's are an issue so I'll be looking out for that as a potential problem.
If a car has a good service history with 120,000 miles would the mileage put anyone off even if it was maintained to a good condition? My head says dont do it but my heart says gamble, mainly because in that price bracket that's all that is available........ any tips or general advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[RSRowe]

At those sort of mileages I would expect the cars to of had most the usual things fixed.
Mine is around 90k now and has been a track car for 4 years now.
It doesn’t have an easy life. My mates is around 130k and was a track car before he bought it too.

it’s more how they’re looked after than the mileage itself. Just bare in mind, that they are getting to the age where people are selling them cheap as they need suspension bits and the cam belt doing (again)

 

[lewishunter98]

As above really. I bought mine on 79k and had a whole lot of suspension issues shortly after, with random knocks here and there, rack needed doing, gearbox needed doing, ball joints etc. Which wasn't fun nor cheap. But where it is in my hands now and I've replaced all those bits (now on 98k) it drives spot on.

Think the engines in these are pretty good if looked after and regularly serviced. As I say mines on 98k but you wouldn't think it. Goes nearly as well as my mates cammed and stripped 197 on 44k or so (there's really not much in it at all) surprisingly.

So by 100k sort of mileage you'd expect these things to have been sorted. But definitely one thing to double check is the belts being due. Mine are due again next year annoyingly [emoji23]



Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

 

[suj]

As echoed I got mine on 68k it is now on 130k and I have everything replaced more or less on the suspension side, calipers, handbrake cables etc.
Just make sure it has been serviced regularly, they have tracked what they have done on the car and you'll be good to go.

My mileage has been ~20k a year, nearly all motorway for work for coming up to 4 years, apart from covid meaning the last 6-7months I have been working from home it failed me once, a coil pack went on a return day trip to London, literally fixed as soon as I got towed home.

Belts can be expensive to do, so a bonus if done (but make sure it was done by a reputable Renault specialist, not a normal garage as most just cannot time them correctly).

I went on a 1200mile roadtrip end of Sept round Wales and Lake District and the car was amazing, pulled hard, showed up many expensive cars on the twisty roads, it took the abuse fine, so as above if maintained well they will drive amazing.

 

[Marsch]

 

[AdamH55]

Thanks for your opinions/experience. I'm most concerned about the suspension issues to be honest, as from previous experience it can be very costly trying to fix knocks and vibrations. With regards to the cambelt I've budgeted for that to be replaced on purchase, just for peace of mind really. Is it worth getting the water pump done as I've heard mixed opinions on whether it is actually necessary? I'm based near reading so was going to make the trip to k tec for the repair, it's only 100 quid extra for that to be done, but was hoping to put any extra money towards any other wear and tear items.

If anyone knows of any other good specialists that would also be very helpful. For future I was looking at the k tec exhaust manifold, but most people go for Toyo. Is this just purely based on price?

 

[Marsch]

You always change the pump with the belt!

 

[suj]

You always change the pump with the belt!

This!

I think you're getting confused with the dephaser pulley not always being needed, I'm glad I did as mine was on way out (car drove so much better once changed).

 

[AdamH55]

Ahh ok, the k tec website offers a cambelt price with and without the water pump..... thanks. What exactly is the dephaser pulley? Is it another name for a tensioner?

 

[suj]

Ahh ok, the k tec website offers a cambelt price with and without the water pump..... thanks. What exactly is the dephaser pulley? Is it another name for a tensioner?

The cambelt kit doesn't come with a waterpump, but it is common practice to change it, if that fails you have to then take off cambelt to get to it, so it's not cheap.

Dephaser pulley is a pulley that is used to varying timing (variable valve timing), in the 172/182 you had to change them with the cambelt, but apparently they are stronger in the 197/200 and don't need doing, but most places won't charge you labour to put a new one in when doing cambelt, so it's worth just doing (well I thought so and glad I did, as mine was shot and drives so much better), like the waterpump, if the dephaser pulley fails, you have to take the whole cambelt off and redo timing etc.

 

[AdamH55]

The cambelt kit doesn't come with a waterpump, but it is common practice to change it, if that fails you have to then take off cambelt to get to it, so it's not cheap.

Dephaser pulley is a pulley that is used to varying timing (variable valve timing), in the 172/182 you had to change them with the cambelt, but apparently they are stronger in the 197/200 and don't need doing, but most places won't charge you labour to put a new one in when doing cambelt, so it's worth just doing (well I thought so and glad I did, as mine was shot and drives so much better), like the waterpump, if the dephaser pulley fails, you have to take the whole cambelt off and redo timing etc.

Nice one, thanks for clearing that up. I'll be doing the lot now I know the cam belt has to come off to do the water pump. I always questioned the difficulty in replacing the cambelt, now I know what the dephaser pulley does it makes perfect sense to go to a reputable specialist.

Thanks for everyone's help. If anyone is selling up for around 3 grand, give me a shout.

 

[NickD]

I have replaced stuff obviously, but nothing I would not expect on a car with such miles. Gearbox sweet as a nut, but then I also don't think I need to change gear in 0.003 of a second. And it does the car stuff that is needed. Express delivery! https://photos.app.goo.gl/PeWUVQyLk2uPWgT77

 

[Chris.200]

There will be some looked after cars at that sort of mileage but a lot of lemons as well. If you find one that's average I'd recommend you budget £500-£1200 a year on servicing and repairs, depending on how much you're willing to do yourself and mileage etc.

Make sure you check for regular oil changes, as this is a must! Cambelt 6 years or 70k (£600-£700 job, go to a specialist who has the right tools and knows what they are doing).

New manifold every 80k/8 years. If you can find someone that's replaced theirs along with powerflex engine mounts, you'll probably be ok on flexis.

Hub carrier ball joints and steering rack inner joints are prone to wear and can be costly, but don't let this put you off. The suspension is well engineered which is why they are so good round corners, but does need tlc.

Brakes are prone to seizing up, should really be stripped and cleaned annually. Disks are expensive too.

Radiator support brackets will likely be corroded excessively, but not a huge issue.

Due to the alloy metals Renault used for most component fixings, bolts can seize and be a nightmare to get off/drill out.

Gearboxes are a bit of a lottery, some replaced at 20k, mine still original at 86k! Down change from 4th to 3rd and back up again a few times, any syncro crunching not good at all and expensive repair!

I've had mine for 5 years and almost 60k miles. An excellent daily and great on track too (if you want to). They are cheap to buy but can be expensive to run if unfortunate.

Nobody makes hot hatches like these anymore and never will again (naturally aspirated, manual, 3 door, variable valve timing, brembo's, rev happy) so you may as well take the plunge and buy one immediately imo.

 

[Chris.200]

NickD - that is absolutely savage mileage and must be applauded, bravo.

 

[NickD]

I would say that if you are any sort of competent home mechanic, changing a cam belt is no huge issue. Yes you need to buy crank and cam locking tools but it is not rocket science. Dephasers, admittedly I have never taken a Renault one apart, but in general these things are very simple devices and would need a catastrophic internal leak to not function properly and so get changed far more frequently than ever required. More of an issue would be the oil control vale supplying it.

 

[NickD]

NickD - that is absolutely savage mileage and must be applauded, bravo.

It is the car in the video elsewhere on this site. I think it is great and what I like about it is that because it is not "new" or a garage queen it is a fantastic everyday car for most things. And as I supply tyres the fact I can get 12 reasonably sized ones in, so I don't have to drive 5 tonnes of tyre fitting van is even better.

 

[tincan7]

listen for engine knock at that type of milage the rod bearings can wear, one of mine is done and its done 110K miles. as above regular oil changes, with good quality oil. I think my bearing failed due to high G starvation and heat as I live in the southern most part of France. I have replaced the airbox for an R3 to keep her cool as a cucumber.

 

[-kev-]

nothing wrong with 100k mile cars, when you factor in the 10k per year average, even 100k isn't 'high'. if the car has been well maintained mechanically then go for it. too many people see what they deem to be high miles and get scared off..

 

[link]

Mines just rolled over 100k...Still on the original gear box, most of the suspension has been done along with manifold etc. It feels same as it did on 50k, as soon as something starts wearing you'll know about it regardless of mileage; suspension knocks, brake juddering, gears crunching and so on...

 

[AdamH55]

Mines just rolled over 100k...Still on the original gear box, most of the suspension has been done along with manifold etc. It feels same as it did on 50k, as soon as something starts wearing you'll know about it regardless of mileage; suspension knocks, brake juddering, gears crunching and so on...

View attachment 143923

I brought a 125,000 mile 197 in black back in december. Paid 3k on the dot for it. Its had the manifold and exhaust done, along with some power flex mounts. I've since put a decat on it. The noise is immense, and has put a horrible flat spot at about 3-3500 rpm, but I dont care as I plan on getting a remap at some point.

Suspension wise, the top mounts are knocking and I have a steering creak when turning right. So aim to fit cup shocks, with the grams springs/new top mounts but am unsure on how firm the ride will be. I'm guessing the steering creak will be the costly replacement of swivel hub bearings. I'm aiming to do all the work myself to save as much money as possible.

Future plans will also include a new clutch as its biting quite high and money permitting an r3 airbox, along with getting the calipers sprayed red, and seatbelts re webbed in red too. If theres any other chassis recommended upgrades to do I'd appreciate the heads up guys?