Help timing camshafts

[Brunoandrade98]

Hi all,

A few days ago, I started changing my timing belt. I have a set of genuine locking tools with the "Horseshoe", pulley locking tool, and crank locking pin.

I figured it would be the "not easy, but doable" type of job, but I'm quickly reaching the conclusion that I might be out of my depth.

I've hit a snag where I can't get the horseshoe to slide into the camshafts after the belt is fitted, tensioned and the pulleys torqued to 30Nm (as per the manual) and after turning the crank manually twice.

After taking these steps, and attempting to fit the horseshoe, it simply won't slide in easily.
I've tried over and over by loosening the pulleys and re-tightening them with the pulley locking tool and horseshoe in place, but the result is always the same: the horseshoe doesn't slide in because the inlet camshaft is slightly over rotated counter-clockwise

The only way to fit the horseshoe after timing, is to fit it first into the inlet cam, and teasing it slightly clockwise, so that it fits into the exhaust cam.

I think the reason for this is due to tension by the valve springs, but I can't figure out how to counter this.

I'm too deep into this and can't really take the car to a mechanic, now.
Not only that, but where I live, there's not really a specialist I could take it into, either.

It appears I'm stuck with this.

I'll appreciate any tips or wisdom that might help me get this sorted myself.

If I fit it into the exhaust cam first, this is how far off it is:

 

[RSRowe]

I would loosen the pins, get the horseshoe in, put the pulley lockers in, tighten the pins (obviously with the crank pin still in)

I had the same issue last week.

 

[Brunoandrade98]

I would loosen the pins, get the horseshoe in, put the pulley lockers in, tighten the pins (obviously with the crank pin still in)

I had the same issue last week.

By pins, you mean pulleys?

This is what I've been doing over and over until I get it right, except I never got it right.

 

[turkie172]

I think the camshaft slots are offset and I think they are supposed to be above the center line

Sorry my mistake they are below the center line

 

[turkie172]

Have you not got the service manual for the 197 100Mb pdf file

 

[Brunoandrade98]

Have you not got the service manual for the 197 100Mb pdf file

Not the full PDF, but the bit regarding changing the timing belt. According to it, the cams are the right way up, with the small D (HA!) on the bottom.
Also just like in this video.

With the crank pin fitted in, I doubt you'd be able to have them the wrong way up, as surely the valves would have contact with the pistons?
hypothetically, if so, how bad would it be if contact had happened, but the engine hadn't been cranked? IE, turning crank manually or while manipulating cams with the horseshoe tool?

 

[turkie172]

 

[turkie172]

I corrected myself above the slots should be below the center line only turn the engine over manually easier with the plugs out but if your out of your depth stop and trailer the car to a specialist it's just too expensive to mess it up.

 

[Brunoandrade98]

I corrected myself above the slots should be below the center line only turn the engine over manually easier with the plugs out but if your out of your depth stop and trailer the car to a specialist it's just too expensive to mess it up.

That’s the guide I’ve been following.

Unfortunately, I’m not sure if putting the car on a trailer is an option right now.

The timing, while not 100% bang on, it’s not off enough to cause any damage. It was much worse on the old belt. The inlet cam was off by a few degrees and there was no chance of fitting the horseshoe.

Now, I can. But only if I manipulate the cam position with the horseshoe, which isn’t what you’re supposed to do.

 

[RSRowe]

By pins, you mean pulleys?

This is what I've been doing over and over until I get it right, except I never got it right.

Yes, the pulley pins/bolts.

 

[RSRowe]

Just to reaffirm,

With the crank pin, horseshoe, and pulley locks, and the belt tensioned, tighten the pulleys to spec.

I had the same issue last week. And like you say, the old belt would of been much worse (just as mine was)

 

[PITA]

Vid
Watch the above video, it’s great to visualise it all.

You’re pushing against the valve springs when trying to get it bang on. Don’t worry too much about it being bang on prior to equalising the tension in the belt as it’ll move once you wind the engine around. As you pinch up the pulleys you’ll move the cams too, ideally have them offset so that when you pinch them up they come true.

 

[Brunoandrade98]

Watch the above video, it’s great to visualise it all.

Thanks for this.
I did watch this video a few times, as per your suggestion on my previous post on how to actually change the timing belt, a few months ago.

It really is a good video, and I followed it in conjunction with the manual.

You’re pushing against the valve springs when trying to get it bang on. Don’t worry too much about it being bang on prior to equalising the tension in the belt as it’ll move once you wind the engine around. As you pinch up the pulleys you’ll move the cams too, ideally have them offset so that when you pinch them up they come true.

I thought that might be where I'm going wrong, but I'm not quite sure how to correct it.

Let's say that:

• Crank locking pin is fitted
• Belt is fitted
• Idler pulley is fitted
• Tensioner is fitted and tensioned
• Horseshoe is fitted
• The exhaust camshaft and Dephaser pulleys are loosened

At this stage, I would fit the pulley locking tool so that I can torque the pulleys to 30Nm.

The thing is, because the inlet cam has tension (due to the valve springs, as you mentioned), immediately after removing the horseshoe, the inlet cam rotates ever so slightly resulting in the horseshoe not fitting. Even without turning the engine.
If I turn the engine twice, the result is the same.

I'm stuck in this loop where I do it all up again, and the inlet cam is always ever so slightly rotated and I can't really counter that. Super annoying!

 

[Brunoandrade98]

Just to reaffirm,

With the crank pin, horseshoe, and pulley locks, and the belt tensioned, tighten the pulleys to spec.

I had the same issue last week. And like you say, the old belt would of been much worse (just as mine was)

That's what I've been doing. My problem is that the inlet cam always over-rotates ever so slightly after tightening the pulleys to 30Nm and removing the horseshoe.

This is what I'm struggling to counter.

 

[RSRowe]

Yes, I understand. Just build it back up.
You've spun it over already and had no contact. Do the same when you refit the lower pulley and aux belt. It'll be fine

 

[Brunoandrade98]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone that helped. I got it all sorted in the end. It was quite the "trial and error" process, but I got it timed, and now everything is back together. I was quite nervous to push the "Start" button, but it's running great.

A massive win in my book, as I saved a ton of money and it was quite the learning experience.