Engine conversions for racing

[jackthelad]

Started on my build for the 197, cage is going in next month and seats are on order!
Im intending to do some race events like MSV trophy etc..where do you stand with things like a megd clio in terms of regs?
I know a lot of people just go down the throttle body route and I'm happy to do that I'm just curious as to what the rules and regs are for some amatuer race series like it.
I know your class may change etc but I'd be keen to know to help me make my mind up.

thanks guys

 

[TB Rich]

It's going to be down to each series so look at the SR's. Build a car to the regs of the championship you want, don't try and find a championship to fit the car you've built - or you'll never be competitive. Boost usually has a multiplication factor so even if an engine swap is allowed, at the very least you'll be up against likely far faster machinery.

 

[ado]

It depends how much money you have, figure out your budget then find a series. Once you get into a series that allows expensive engine mods then you will be spending bucket loads!

 

[jackthelad]

I don't know what to do, I wanted to do the Meg conversion and use it for track days and enter a race series, my car needs work like belts, clutch, exhaust etc etc..I didn't want to be spending lots on breathing mods to get 12bhp and so on.
I really don't know what to do. I wanted to run around 270bhp. The Meg conversion was half the reason I bought the car too

 

[TB Rich]

I'm about to sell a K20 and LSD box which I bought for the Clio, change of plans means going. Depends on which series you find but it'll still be 2.0 NA.

If you tune the F4R you'll spend more than the conversion costs and have a very highly strung engine which still doesn't even produce the K20 power. Trust me I've spent 5 figures now on F4R tuning! Speak to Mitch at Pro Line if you need it doing, by far the best option out there.

 

[jackthelad]

I'm about to sell a K20 and LSD box which I bought for the Clio, change of plans means going. Depends on which series you find but it'll still be 2.0 NA.

If you tune the F4R you'll spend more than the conversion costs and have a very highly strung engine which still doesn't even produce the K20 power. Trust me I've spent 5 figures now on F4R tuning! Speak to Mitch at Pro Line if you need it doing, by far the best option out there.

whats involved in the fitting of it? Much effort?
I've never been a Vtec fan even when I had mine but I do like the scream!

 

[TB Rich]

Mounts, shafts, exhaust manifold, wiring/ecu, and usual bits like rad and fuel hoses. Speak to Mitch at Proline Motorsport (has a race build thread on here), he's very capable to do this.

The engine and box fit's in the bay really well:



Mounts you can use the top of billet Kswap mounts, you just need to weld up the steel cradle on the legs:


Gear shift is easy, use the Ktuned no-cut shifter. Uses OEM Honda cables from shifter to box. I have a set of OEM Honda cables too included:




I've got OEM Honda driveshafts, you can cut them and the Renault ones to fabricate the correct length, then new single piece shafts can be made using the measurements.

Engine includes aircon pump (probably ditch that on race car), alternator etc, also the full engine wiring loom. Probably use a DTA and Stack dials would be the easiest, but you could use the SC Renault p'n'p ECU but rather than pick up the F4R engine side, just use the K20. Chassis and CANbus side all remains as-is and retain full dash and dials etc.

The engine was a K20Z4 from a FN2, 29k miles.
The box was from an FN2, 2011 plate so has the LSD.

I paid, £1690 for engine (with all accessories), shafts and gear cables. £700 for the box.

Would do a deal on both.

Having already spent 5 figures on my engine and box, I simply hit a point where I woke up and thought ****, have I really spent this on a Clio and about to commit to considerable further expense on it! Hence doing a rebuild of what I've got and selling the K20 to fund it. - Have a word with Mitch and get some ballpark pricing then let me know, but compared to a proper ITB'd forged build on an F4R along with sticking a Diff in the Renault box - you'll be at conversion money. K20 will have a huge performance ceiling compared to the Renault and be far more reliable doing it. But if you've already had K20 then you'll be better placed to know I'm sure It'll be going on eBay this weekend, probably Sun eve.

 

[jackthelad]

Looks mega epic conversion but surely a megane engine would be better for tunning and cost wise vs the K20 conversion?

 

[TB Rich]

Looks mega epic conversion but surely a megane engine would be better for tunning and cost wise vs the K20 conversion?

Objectively yes, couldn't argue against it. But if you wanted a boosted hatch they're ten a penny in OEM form, and frankly you might as well buy a Meg. Better build, better gearbox and boosted from the factory so no cooling issues etc.

Me however, I'm a die hard N/A junkie and would rather spend (has I have) considerably more tuning the N/A Clio than it would to even buy a Meg outright. You just don't get the response, feel, sound etc from a boosted engine. But if your a quantity not quality guy then yeah boost everyday

 

[jackthelad]

Yea I agree with you, when I had my EP3 I was On the verge of doing a 300 hp n/a build as there was a chap selling a whole kit for it, K24 block, cams from that guy who makes them himself (can't remember the name lol)
Valves, pistons, the lot..was around 3k and would of been a steal!
Sold the car in the end tho as it kept going wrong.

I dont one know what to do, my mind tells me Meg conversion is cheaper and better for my own use, other part says you can't beat a N/A scream and it's not very common when compared to the 2 choices

 

[DS197]

Why don't you go for the engine dynamics 250 turbo conversion. Best of both worlds as you get extra power, but keep the NA nature of the car and the original compression ratio.

 

[TB Rich]

Yeah Meg is a head decision, K20 is a heart! K24 300bhp would be insane

DS197, you can't be serious lol! In what possible way could turboing the original engine keep the NA nature[emoji38]

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[DS197]

I know what you mean, it won't be exactly like a NA car, but it has a fairly flat torque curve when on boost and still makes power at over 7200 RPM. It's much better than the meg conversions which would run out of puff at that point. I also had a chat with a great guy at engine dynamics who said that this was the main aim of the conversion. I'd rather have that and 50 bhp less than a meg conversion anyday of the week. Dyno results: http://www.engine-dynamics.com/products/i/large_100340-2-2016318153517.jpg

 

[TB Rich]

Yeah Andy at ED is a good guy, tons of experience with boost too.

That's a decent power graph, in no objective way could I argue N/A over it. But with N/A it's the subjective things you can't really define by a number. It's the immediate response (well when you ditch the Renault ECU!), the noise that changes in character depending on load and revs, and having peak power 1000rpm later than that graph just adds to the excitement. Strap a blower on and you'll never get the same throttle response, some of the more exotic stuff like the 488 GTB and AMG GT have apparently all but nailed it, however... they still don't sound anywhere near as good as the out going 458 Speciale or that C63 V8!

Anyway the Honda and box are provisionally sold now, being held for payment on Monday I hope.