Dephaser pulley

[Chemist]

Two weeks ago took my 200 in @ the dealer's because of a ticking noise that is exactly the same as when the dephaser pulley is faulty (I compared via youtube). As some guys here perhaps remember, the engine got the same noise/ticking sound a few days after I had it tuned (reinforced clutch + custom cold air intake + 100cell race cat + pre-cat elimination + remap). At that time the tuner thought it was the con-rod bearings. This seemed not to be the case and since they were at it, the con-rod bolts were replaced with reinforced ARP parts. After filling back up with oil, the ticking sound was gone; without any explanation actually. At least one month passed without this noise 'till two weeks ago. In the morning I was driving to work when suddenly it started all over again. I decided to take the car to the dealer and they blamed it on the dephaser pulley. They promised me to change it and off course timing belt and tensioners would be renewed at the same time.

A few hours ago got a call, they were still putting the engine back together as they had also taken off the cylinder head to have a look at the valves. They told me on the phone the mechanics "visually" could not see anything wrong...

My question: can one determine visually if a dephaser pulley is faulty or not??

Any other bright ideas if on Monday this ticking sound is still present? The guy that remapped it ensured me he didn't touch any of the VVT maps. He thinks it might be due to the fact that the rev limiter is upped by 200RPM and/or the fact that my first dealer (where I originally bought the car) managed to poor in the wrong oil (ELF Solaris RNX 5w30 instead of ELF Evolution SXR 5w40) a couple of times during maintenance.

Thanks in advance for your replies. Any help/suggestions are appreciated.

 

[Foxspeed]

on the renault pdf file i have for the 182 fr4 engine it states that the dephaser pulley should have no movement back and forth ie you cannot turn it clockwise or anti-clockwise

 

[Pdlk24]

Hi Chemist
Why was the head removed what was this going to achieve?

Dephaser's break up inside as foxspeed suggest's and their should be no float left/right.
Normally dephaser's rattle on initial start-up and this noise lasts for about 10sec's then will be ok for the rest of the day!

The other failure is engine start's then stops when trying to start as the phaser has stuck in advance or retard position....

Dont think oil is the problem as alternative oil grade is 5/30w and other renault models have the same engine design with dephaser and they run 5/30W...

What is the noise your on about? Tappets? or is it more heavy and can you locate it?

 

[sideways danny]

the way the 830 vvt pulley works is very different to a 172/182 dephaser. It's not actually a dephaser at all as that is a pulley which switches between 2 points, and the 200 has fully variable cam timing.

I'm going to put my money on a faulty cambelt tensioner, or the water pump

 

[Chemist]

I searched youtube and this vid is exactly the same sound my engine was making. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_JpcTW_TN4

Since I got this noise again for the second time, I was a bit scared of ruining the engine completely so I pulled over @ the local Skoda dealer. Had to wait a few hours to be able to phone my dealer since it was very early in the morning. When a mechanic arrived it seemed the noise was still there but less than before. After the engine got warmer the noise increased and got really scary. Therefore it was decided not to drive any further and I was towed to my dealer.

Danny, my water pump, cambelt and tensioners have been replaced earlier this year (in July) under warranty.

Anyway, thanks everybody for your answers, glad that you're all here. The engine will be completely put back together on Monday as the mechanics didn't have enough time yesterday to finish up.

Seems like what I need is some sort of exorcist ...
Fingers crossed...
I'll keep you informed 'bout the cursed Clio.

One more thing though @ Sideways Danny (or anyone else) : do you think the remap can have something to do with it all? As one day after the mapping (somewhere back in September) I also got error messages. Went back in @ my tuner (thats the point where the con-rod bolts were replaced by ARP parts) and the guy who did the mapping was contacted - my tuner only did the mechanical tuning, the mapping was done by his associate. At that moment he was in Italy @ 'Dimsport'. Seems he's well connected all over the world (did a lot of work for Lotus, mind you...). Anyway, these Italian blokes also had a look at the map and when he got back some parameters were modified and I didn't get any error messages ever again.

 

[Chemist]

Since I'm a guy who likes to keep his promises, here's an update:
After the mechanics had put the engine back together, put 5W40 in it and subsequently fired it back up, the knock was still present. So oil was drained yet again and crank case removed. To everyones surprise the con rod bearings were destroyed on two of the four cylinders and crank shaft was damaged as well. Nobody can really understand why in this little time frame between the first appearance of this knocking noise back in September (--> installation of the ARP bolts) and only 1000 km's covered it all went sour...

So I was now left with only a few options. Since to me it was a painful experience (I'm quite attached to the Clio) and lots of negotiations - mostly from a financial point of view- were the consequence; I'm not going to disclose details but a brand new engine was placed under the hood.

Question still is: what causes this? Surely not the con rod bolts since reinforced ARP ones were installed. I read on an Italian board there are several cases over there and one of the mechanics @ the dealer's told me he knows a bloke who has actually had two engines gone in a short time.

This is resulting in a serious lack in confidence and TBH, I'm scared every time I turn over the ignition key... ;/

 

[Willis]

Gah!!!

Were the ARPs torqued correctly when they were fitted!?!

Are the other cases on the Italian board also after ARP fitment?

 

[Chemist]

Gah!!!

Were the ARPs torqued correctly when they were fitted!?!

Are the other cases on the Italian board also after ARP fitment?

Well, the ARP's were fitted by my tuner who does WRX'es and EVO's so, surely, he knows the drill. Moreover, a pall of mine was actually there when they fitted them as they were also planning work on a 911 Turbo (my buddy used to have one and knows a lot 'bout it - he was there giving advice as they hadn't done Porsche before). He told me there was a piece of paper (instructions) accompanying the bolts stating the exact torque needed.
So to me the con rod bolts are not the culprit in this case...

Can't tell for sure but think on the Italian board they were all std engines.

 

[Willis]

Very unfortunate mate, sounds like the tuner knows what he was doing so could just be a freak failure.

I think it's only a very small % of F4R engines that have had issues when you look at how many they've made.

 

[Foxspeed]

had the bearings spun in the rods?

think the italian cars would be more effected by heat casuing bearing failure

theres nothing to say that a batch of bearing have been incorrectly matched to the rods/crank

were the faulty ones to the front of the engine or the rear (oil pump front of engine)? - possible oil starvation?

 

[Chemist]

had the bearings spun in the rods?

think the italian cars would be more effected by heat casuing bearing failure

theres nothing to say that a batch of bearing have been incorrectly matched to the rods/crank

were the faulty ones to the front of the engine or the rear (oil pump front of engine)? - possible oil starvation?

Hi Foxspeed,

Yep they did.

A bad batch of bearings, that's what some suggest on the Italian board (if google translates correctly )

The faulty ones were to the opposite side of the oil pump so oil starvation might have had a hand in this...