Cup Dampers with H&R's worth it?

[BenAG200]

So as one of my next mods, I want to do the suspension. My car is currently a FF and mainly used for fast road and the daily commute. I want to start using it for track days and have my first booked for June.

I've been set on getting KW V1's but unless a set come up on here I'll be saving for a good few months to buy brand new. I've been wondering if cup dampers with H&R springs could be a good alternative or wait out and get the V1's.

Thoughts please?

 

[Willis]

Do it.

Close Thread.

No, honestly, the H&Rs work really well with the Cup Dampers. It's a very good setup but be warned it is stiff, I don't find it uncomfortable but it depends what you're used to with previous cars etc.. I found that there's a lot less roll when compared to the FF setup both on road and on track. Have a look at my project thread, there's a review of them in there which you might find helpful.

For what you'd gain in performance, is it really worth the extra £750-850 for the KWs? Personally, I couldn't justify it...

 

[BenAG200]

Good progress thread, my only concern is that I'd do it and then wish I'd gone for the coil overs anyway?

 

[Willis]

I can honestly say I've never had that thought, it depends what you want from the car really...

I've used coilovers before and after having them set up, I never touched the settings again. The car they were on handled superbly, it made a big difference to it. But, when you consider how good the Clio chassis and KYB/Renaultsport suspension is to begin with you're pretty hard pushed to improve it. But, they have to cater for the masses and suspension is always an area of compromise on a mass-produced car. To me, the H&Rs tighten everything up nicely without making things crashy or bouncy and I think if Renault made a more hardcore version (R26.R-esque) of the 197/200 then the ride/setup would be quite close to this...

It's easy to stick up for mods when you've paid for them but in all honesty if this setup was no good I'd have taken it off within weeks and gone KW.

Is there anybody local to yourself with KWs or the H&R/Cup setup? Maybe worth having a ride out with them and seeing what you think.

 

[BenAG200]

Hmm, have been in a KW'd Clio but not one with the cup/H&R setup.

Mind Pm'ing where you got your parts so i can get a better idea of cost?

 

[Willis]

On its way. :thumbsup:

 

[deadmau5]

Is there an expected life time on the Cup dampers? I'm nearly on 60k and I'm worried that lowering the car will just exaggerate their downfall. They feel solid at the moment though.

 

[Chrisgti6]

How much is it going to cost for cups dampers though? If you're buying new from a dealer then they are going to be costly arent they? How much are the KW v1's?

 

[deadmau5]

I think (don't quote me), four cup dampers are £240 without springs.

 

[Willis]

H&Rs = £180-200

Cup Dampers = £200-250

Plus a couple of hours fitting cost or a couple of hours on your back on the drive.

KW V1s = £750-850

Plus a couple of hours fitting and a couple of hours setup time by somebody who knows their onions...

Strangely, the standard Cup Springs are ridiculously expensive, round the £500 mark for the set. Or at least they were last summer.

 

[deadmau5]

It seems very strange that the cup springs are double the price of the dampers.

 

[Chrisgti6]

I bought one front cup spring a couple of weeks ago £97

 

[Yiannis197]

Now, this is only my opinion. I fitted 30mm H&R springs on nearly new 200 cup dampers on my 36k R27. The reason I changed dampers was because I found some very cheap ones on ebay (4k miles) so I though what the hell, the car has nearly 40k miles after all, the dampers must be kind of tired...

Anyway, I tried to do as much research as possible prior to buying the springs. I was looking for spring rates, how progressive these are, how the ride is going to be etc. However I couldn't find any answer on the spring rates but anyhow I decided to go for it.

To my surprise the H&R springs are MUCH thinner than the CUP springs (maybe that's why the cup springs are so expensive???) and that made me think that they are probably ''softer'' than the stock ones (especially to the 200 cup which are stiffer than the 197s anyway). Still, they don't come with rubber tubing at the low end of the spring as the eibachs and the stock ones. So before I even fitted them I was quite disappointed. But then I thought, oh well, maybe the material is different etc.

I had the springs fitted, the stance now much better, basically it looks the business but I can't say that for the ride. I personally don't mind the stiff ride but I'm not talking about stiffness here. The ride is crashy and that is probably because the suspension has now 23mm less travel and on top of that I don't think the ride is stiffer than stock. I really don't think so (and I wanted it to be). I still believe that the cup springs are stiffer and I could put money on it. Maybe the H&R were designed for the ff one which is relatively soft? just guessing...

Now the body roll, well I can't really tell to be totally honest with you. I know the front cup springs are progressive and the rears are linear as opposed to the H&R ones which are all progressive (please correct me if I'm wrong) and the car sits higher on the cup ones but does that - only by itself - really play a significant/absolute role? What I'm trying to say is that in the low speed corners the car with the H&R feel more planted (quite expected) but what happens in the high speed corners? The body roll is equally the same if not more...

Long story sort and this is ONLY MY PERSONAL REVIEW, I'm not happy with the springs and they are going off, I'm saving up for some H&R coilovers in the future. Hope that helps.

 

[Raptor6767]

Long story sort and this is ONLY MY PERSONAL REVIEW, I'm not happy with the springs and they are going off, I'm saving up for some H&R coilovers in the future. Hope that helps.

A friend of mine had the same experience with the Cup suspension in combination with the aftermarket springs (Eibach or H&R i believe).

 

[newman90]

i have front and rear springs from my 197 f1 if anyone interested?

 

[BenAG200]

Anyone else running this setup?

 

[Gez]

Think this has summed up my question then. I'm not bothering with springs just for a few mm drop and may compromise the handling.

 

[sideways danny]

Ben went for Spax coilovers in the end

 

[walkie86]

I think it all comes down to personal preference as the 2 guys with H&R/Cup damper combo in this thread said completely different things. And I am going to add a third...

The ride with H&R springs is not crashy at all. It is stiffer in the rear and on par in the front, compared to the non-Cup setup.

The car feels very direct and planted, and looks great with the 30/40 drop. The only negative, for me, is that the ride is now very bouncy, on bumpy, country roads. Someone described it as "pogoing" where the up movement of the suspension travel is more pronounced.

There are a million and one threads on this topic on here, being one of the most popular mods.

I wish I could've gone for coilovers (KW v1) but I couldn't justify the extra cost over the springs as I have a track car that I spend my money on. Overall, I am happy with the looks and handling of the H&R/Cup combo.

But, if you have any doubts, save for the coilovers and do it properly.

 

[sideways danny]

The only negative, for me, is that the ride is now very bouncy, on bumpy, country roads. Someone described it as "pogoing" where the up movement of the suspension travel is more pronounced.

that suggests the rebound damping is too soft.