197: Clio 197 - My 12 month review

Antti O

Gold Member
Thanks for good review. Wow you have such smooth and good roads there. No grooves, no potholes..
Now i understand how you can live with cup suspension there. :smile:
 

Big Ben

Winner - POTM February 2018
Paid Member
Nice video of Snetterton. Car sounded ace.

What tyres were you on out of interest?
 

Big Ben

Winner - POTM February 2018
Paid Member
Ad08r front, budget yokos at the rear. It was lively and squirming under braking for every corner but easily manageable and super fun.
Ahhh! Yeah thought the back looked a little loose which is no mean feat in one of these unless tyres are iffy!

Great editing skills. Enjoyed watching
 
Genuine question.
What was the decision process in running different tyres front to rear? In that, I know why it would be done, but what was your reasoning?
The reason I ask is that I was recently with a guy at Donington who came to me in a Fiesta ST, which is the car all the mags have said has taken over the mantle on best Hot Hatch from the Clio. He had some tyre issues and long story short I ended up going out with him and then driving his car. The back was ridiculous and kept wanting to overtake the front both under braking and mid corner. Initially, I thought f**k me these ST's are lively and put it down to the fronts, which were now the rears being destroyed by his very novice driving style. However it then transpires that he has had adjustable dampers fitted as that was what the internet had told him to do and that more so, all the advice he had been given by the internet told him that he must have the back moving about to stop understeer. As a result he had his front dampers on just about full soft and the back on full hard. While there absolutely is a case for wanting some rotation IF the car is understeering, it is not a given that you want the back end loose if the front is going where it should.
Watching your video, you are so compromised on corner entry and mid corner I am wondering why you ended up like that especially as these cars have such a good balance and chassis as standard.
 

alliemam197

Paid Member
Genuine question.
What was the decision process in running different tyres front to rear? In that, I know why it would be done, but what was your reasoning?
The reason I ask is that I was recently with a guy at Donington who came to me in a Fiesta ST, which is the car all the mags have said has taken over the mantle on best Hot Hatch from the Clio. He had some tyre issues and long story short I ended up going out with him and then driving his car. The back was ridiculous and kept wanting to overtake the front both under braking and mid corner. Initially, I thought f**k me these ST's are lively and put it down to the fronts, which were now the rears being destroyed by his very novice driving style. However it then transpires that he has had adjustable dampers fitted as that was what the internet had told him to do and that more so, all the advice he had been given by the internet told him that he must have the back moving about to stop understeer. As a result he had his front dampers on just about full soft and the back on full hard. While there absolutely is a case for wanting some rotation IF the car is understeering, it is not a given that you want the back end loose if the front is going where it should.
Watching your video, you are so compromised on corner entry and mid corner I am wondering why you ended up like that especially as these cars have such a good balance and chassis as standard.
Short answer: I wanted to have as much fun as possible.
Long answer: I did already have some ad08rs to put on the rears but as it was my first track day with the Clio I wanted to get a feel for the weight/body roll and a great way to do it was to have some budget tyres on the rears so it could kick out under braking as much as possible. It felt a bit ridiculous because the front was extremely grippy in comparison and I couldn't believe how immediate the turn into corners still was. The offset of running shitty rear tyres (or crap tyres on track in general) is having to work the brakes extra hard to keep it stable. I guess it was a similar reasoning as to why the Toyota GT86 has incredibly skinny tyres. I'm wanting to do another track day next month or so with ad08rs all round as well as some braided lines because while the standard brake set up is very capable, I felt the lines may have buldged trying to cope with the harder compound pads (PBS).
 

alliemam197

Paid Member
It was more turning into corners while braking, I could've carried more speed into corners if I knew the back wasn't going to step out. The corner just after the bridge was a prime example, each time I was braking into the first bend the rear would squirm a little so i'd brake a little bit more to bring it in for the right hander. It was fun and got me used to handling it on the limit without actually going that fast.
 
Sorry to be nerdy. It was the bit about having to work the brakes hard to keep less grippy tyres stable that set me off. hobby_horse.gif
What I think you are actually saying is you are slowing the car down enough so the back isn't rotating, so allowing you to take the right. To be fair that left at Snetterton is a 4th gear entry and the right a 3rd or even second gear exit so there is a fair bit of braking to be done their anyway.
You probably don't have as great an outright grip imbalance between the actual tyres as you might think, unless the rears are absolutely shocking, but it is more to do with weight distribution. With the average FWD having around 65% weight on the front wheels the accelerator and certainly the brake pedal have a great deal to do with how the car moves about. Hard braking can put as much as 85% of weight on the front tyres so just lifting for a corner is going lighten the back. Braking will just make it even more so. What I think you are doing is braking sufficiently hard enough to then allow you to accelerate though the apex and so redressing the balance. If you actually braked in a straight line and took the car into the corner on a balanced throttle it would be less wayward. This all comes from the encounter with Fiesta man who had been told he "had to have the rear hanging out" to drive it fast. You only need the back to be out if understeer is killing you in the corners and you can't get a balance.
 

alliemam197

Paid Member
Sorry to be nerdy. It was the bit about having to work the brakes hard to keep less grippy tyres stable that set me off. View attachment 132122
What I think you are actually saying is you are slowing the car down enough so the back isn't rotating, so allowing you to take the right. To be fair that left at Snetterton is a 4th gear entry and the right a 3rd or even second gear exit so there is a fair bit of braking to be done their anyway.
You probably don't have as great an outright grip imbalance between the actual tyres as you might think, unless the rears are absolutely shocking, but it is more to do with weight distribution. With the average FWD having around 65% weight on the front wheels the accelerator and certainly the brake pedal have a great deal to do with how the car moves about. Hard braking can put as much as 85% of weight on the front tyres so just lifting for a corner is going lighten the back. Braking will just make it even more so. What I think you are doing is braking sufficiently hard enough to then allow you to accelerate though the apex and so redressing the balance. If you actually braked in a straight line and took the car into the corner on a balanced throttle it would be less wayward. This all comes from the encounter with Fiesta man who had been told he "had to have the rear hanging out" to drive it fast. You only need the back to be out if understeer is killing you in the corners and you can't get a balance.
Knew I joined this site for something haha, great response mate - still learning which gears to be in for each corner at Snetterton. I'll be focusing on being smoother on entry, had so much more grip when accelerating through the corner.