C3RS200 Bilstein B14 vs CUP Pack stiffness

[deekay16v]

Eibachs are way more comfortable for general driving than CUP. My friend, for example, loves them on my car, compared to CUP, that he found harsh.
To simplify it: I have the feeling, that Eibachs grips more and are more comfortable at speeds up to 100kph. Over that, they are too "floaty" for me. CUP is a bit harsh at lower speeds, but when you push the car more it just works better for me.
But we don't have any enormous number of potholed roads here, where I drive. Roads are bumpy and not smooth, but completely fine for CUP.
Fair to say, that I very much prefer car, that steps out to a side in controlled manner, over the car that squishes, so for me Eibachs are a step down.
Hope it helps.

 

[deekay16v]

Being stubborn person, I have ordered set of H&R springs, so I have direct comparison between all three most used setups: Original CUP, Eibach and H&R.
I do not take big chances I will love them, but the curiosity is stronger. I still think, they will be too soft at high speed, looking at some video from youtube. At least I will have more info, before chosing springrates for coilovers In the furure. I will post a review

 

[Marsch]

We currently have a suspension/springs discussion in relation to slalom use over at the German forum and I mentioned your experiences in there. The owner of our forumshop suggested Koni Yellow with H&R for your case. They are harmonizing well together and are very stiff according to his comment.

 

[deekay16v]

Thank you. I have been happy with KONIs on my MkI focus, so lets see how HR springs will cope with my demands on cup shocks and then maybe try konis again In which thread do you have that discussion?

 

[Marsch]

No problem. It's mentioned in the introduction part of the forum (Uservorstellungen -> Hallo aus der Schweiz).

Are you proficiant in German? If not good luck with the translation.

 

[deekay16v]

Yeah, I understand Quite funny. I should go there and say hi, maybe )) Or better introduce my car.
And the fun fact is, I am from Czechia, not UK.
Now I am interested in HR springs even more. They are already on its way.

 

[Marsch]

Yes, please do that. We don't bite!

I'm on Cup dampers and H&Rs and just did my first trackday last weekend. That experience paired with some others I had in other Clios showed me it's not the best choice. A KW V3 for example is lightyears ahead to my experience and even me with my limited capabilities would presumably greatly profit from changing to something like that.

 

[deekay16v]

You run 25mm spacers rear on the each side and no spacers front, If I remember correctly. This alone does not give the best handling to be honest. Try it without, or use 16 or 20mm everywhere, if you rub wheelarches. Using back spacers only rides like a plow in my opinion
KW V3 would be nice, although the reliability of that brand Is supposed to be worse than few years ago. The price is also lightyears ahead from just springs. I will probably end with something like that at some point, but I like to have firsthand experiences and I would not feel "educated" enough, If i did not try Eibachs or HR
What were biggest drawbacks of your current setup on the track?

 

[Marsch]

Thanks for the feedback but I like the look in the back too much to change it. At least at the moment. I'm also not out to achieve best laps. At least at the moment.

 

[Marsch]

Something that's maybe interesting for you and also others in here. I've contacted H&R yesterday because there was no info about the characteristics of their springs for the Clio (progressive/linear). At least I couldn't find anything. I just looked at my inbox and found an answer from them. To my astonishment the fronts are linear while the backs are progressive.

 

[Sean197]

Something that's maybe interesting for you and also others in here. I've contacted H&R yesterday because there was no info about the characteristics of their springs for the Clio (progressive/linear). At least I couldn't find anything. I just looked at my inbox and found an answer from them. To my astonishment the fronts are linear while the backs are progressive.

I believe the standard front springs are progressive, with the standard rears being linear.

 

[Spect]

 

[Spect]

I want to contribute this table (in Spanish, but I think it is well understood) with the hardness of the most common springs for Clio.
I don't know the level of accuracy of the data but the few that I have checked are true.
Muelles delanteros means Front Springs
Muelles traseros means Rear Springs
Referencia Fase 1 means Earlier top mount product number
Referencia Fase 2 means Later top mount product number
Precio aprox means approximate cost (in eur.)

 

[Marsch]

Much appreciated, thanks a lot!

Do you've a Spanish RS forum? I looked ages ago but couldn't find one.

@Sean197 Are you sure it isn't the other way around like with the H&Rs? I'll have a look at the Cup ones next time I'm in my garage.

 

[Sean197]

Much appreciated, thanks a lot!

Do you've a Spanish RS forum? I looked ages ago but couldn't find one.

@Sean197 Are you sure it isn't the other way around like with the H&Rs? I'll have a look at the Cup ones next time I'm in my garage.

Copied from this thread: https://clio197.net/threads/coil-springs-lb-in.8430/

Spring rate OEM Clio RS factory front springs: progressive 28 N/mm up to 40 N/mm
Spring rate OEM Clio RS F1-R27-Cup front springs : progressive 40 N/mm up to 60 N/mm
Spring rate Madeno Racing springs Clio RS : progressive 32 N/mm up to 50 N/mm

Spring rate OEM Clio RS factory rear springs : linear 48 N/mm
Spring rate OEM Clio RS F1-R27-Cup rear springs : linear 67 N/mm
Spring rate Madeno Racing rear springs : progressive 45 N/mm up to 62 N/mm

 

[Marsch]

Mmmh, I'm starting to think that H&R got it wrong in the answer. I've requested a confirmation to make sure.

 

[deekay16v]

At first, springrate as a single number does not give you fair comparison. For example HR states on their website, that their springrates are measured LOADED. That means at ride height. Dunno about other manufacturers.

Regarding progressivity: Have a look at standard clio cup springs, HR and Eibach.



As you can see rear springs (left) have nearly identical coil spacing in case of renault springs but they are partially more tightly wound in case of HR. Fronts are vice versa. Eibachs have tightly wound part front and rear.
So when you think of that "softer" part as a helper spring, then HR answer seems to be correct.

Another examples:
Eibach pro street coilovers (linear front, progressive rear)

Bilstein B14 (progressive front and rear)

 

[Marsch]

Good summary. H&R also confirmed already that it's like said with their springs.

 

[bedoef]

Yes, please do that. We don't bite!

I'm on Cup dampers and H&Rs and just did my first trackday last weekend. That experience paired with some others I had in other Clios showed me it's not the best choice. A KW V3 for example is lightyears ahead to my experience and even me with my limited capabilities would presumably greatly profit from changing to something like that.

I have the KW Clubsport, and after 4 years and around 50,000 kms with many, many track days, curbs, etc, I think they have held up well. My favorite purchase for the Clio because it got rid of that wallowy feeling I had doing track days on stock suspension, and made the car much more precise and agile.

 

[Marsch]

I had a ride in an SAE with V3 and the difference is night and day. I know that but the price is just silly and I'm hesitant to throw so much money at it when I'm only tracking it every leap year. But I also know that who buys cheap often buys twice so I'm not really sure. Will have to think about that a bit more. At the moment I'm tending more into the direction of Monotube or V1 to be honest.