The RC6 do generate a LOT of heat but that's because they work so incredibly well, it's not directly related to the pads. Any pad that's working that well will generate that heat and actually with the RC6 being a metallic sintered pad they should dissipate the heat pretty well. I'm running RC6 pads in standard calipers on standard discs with motul RBF600 fluid, not even a hint of fade and I do use the brakes heavily. Actually the only time I had problems was after sitting in the pits. I would do 15-20 mins of hard laps then a cool down lap, into the pits for 15-20 mins and then the first lap would always have soft brakes but by the end of the lap they were firm again. There's plenty of cooling with the standard setup.
AST's and brake setups.
- Thread starter Kelv
- Start date
The RC6 do generate a LOT of heat but that's because they work so incredibly well, it's not directly related to the pads. Any pad that's working that well will generate that heat and actually with the RC6 being a metallic sintered pad they should dissipate the heat pretty well. I'm running RC6 pads in standard calipers on standard discs with motul RBF600 fluid, not even a hint of fade and I do use the brakes heavily. Actually the only time I had problems was after sitting in the pits. I would do 15-20 mins of hard laps then a cool down lap, into the pits for 15-20 mins and then the first lap would always have soft brakes but by the end of the lap they were firm again. There's plenty of cooling with the standard setup.
I track mine all the time and don't see anyone with better brake set ups apart from cosmetics.
All the lads who do trackdays with me run pf330's or ap330's btw.
your talking about a 9mm difference in radius and 99% will use a lesser pad to enhance disc life.
All been tested by Josh Cook (clio cup racer and megane racer) and there was one set up which came out on top in race conditions.
i believe a couple on here have booked on the cadwell track day on the 26th September.
Come over and say hello, there will be meganes running all different set ups to compare.
Ap356's on the other hand might be worth a shout but I guess you would need 18" wheels.
I swapped from standard discs and pads to PF 330mm discs with DS3000 pads and the difference is incredible for normal and track driving.
I did some back to back tests with the old and new setups and the results can be found in http://www.clio197.net/forum/showthread.php?34788-New-Brake-Setup-Results
I did some back to back tests with the old and new setups and the results can be found in http://www.clio197.net/forum/showthread.php?34788-New-Brake-Setup-Results
That information tells a poor story tbh.
non std disc and pads vs pf330's and ds3000's.
you need to get data from std plains with 3000's and pf's with 3000's on different times in a track session and you will find little difference.
whats good on lap 2 may not be as good on lap 20 for example.
ds3000's are a brilliant pad which I used for a year on track, only lasted 1.5 track days per set of fronts which is the reason I changed to 1.11's which last 4 track days.
Yiannis197
Paid Member
I had stock brakes and then I replaced them with 330mm pf and ds2500. The difference in braking power was immense. Was it down to the pad only? I can't tell tbh but I really don't think so. And even if the pf doesn't play a significant role in braking power as such, it really does in the consistency/long run. It took me more to boil the fluid with the big floating discs and even when it did, the pedal recovered in 5 minutes as opposed to the stock discs (much better heat dissipation than the stock ones...obviously)
Again, I was disappointed the fluid was cooked in the first place but hey...any ideas to work around it anyone?
Again, I was disappointed the fluid was cooked in the first place but hey...any ideas to work around it anyone?
Yianni, does the PF kit really have floating discs aswell?
that helps endlessly with pad knock off on heavy track use when you do a little trail braking.
im surprised they are floating, I'd have just assumed they were two piece items!?
In principal the disc size should help for a little better heat dissipation anyhow.
ive not suffered any losses in the past with the Motul brake fluid, but went with the ATE as so many clio owners seemed to rate it so highly.
i can't say I've had any issues with it, but I certainly couldn't tell you how close I've come to its boiling point either.
that helps endlessly with pad knock off on heavy track use when you do a little trail braking.
im surprised they are floating, I'd have just assumed they were two piece items!?
In principal the disc size should help for a little better heat dissipation anyhow.
ive not suffered any losses in the past with the Motul brake fluid, but went with the ATE as so many clio owners seemed to rate it so highly.
i can't say I've had any issues with it, but I certainly couldn't tell you how close I've come to its boiling point either.
Yiannis197
Paid Member
Yes Kelv they are floating discs not just 2 piece ones. And as you say, a bigger disc should help with the heat transfer and it does indeed. I suppose I was optimistic thinking that I won't have any issues but again, we are talking about extensive and constant braking to zero speeds (tight hairpins), at extreme downhills in a car weighing around 1500kg (heavy passenger, full tank etc). We did the great St bernard today and again i had to stop for a while to allow the hardware to cool down. As I said though, the pedal recovers in 3-5 minutes so it's not that bad. I'll try the motul 660 next time in case I see any difference (or maybe other pads??).
Btw where are you based Kelv? If you are around London you are more than welcome to come and test the ASTs
Btw where are you based Kelv? If you are around London you are more than welcome to come and test the ASTs
Hey Yianni, I'm just outside of South London.
i live towards Reigate, but still got our storage unit where the cars and trailer live just towards Gatwick.
but i do work (most of the time) from Purley, just south of Croydon, or occasionally from our Wimbledon HQ.
where about are you sir?
Edit to add: pleasantly surprised that they are floating aswell.
have you had to replace the floating bobbins atall at any point as yet?
i live towards Reigate, but still got our storage unit where the cars and trailer live just towards Gatwick.
but i do work (most of the time) from Purley, just south of Croydon, or occasionally from our Wimbledon HQ.
where about are you sir?
Edit to add: pleasantly surprised that they are floating aswell.
have you had to replace the floating bobbins atall at any point as yet?
Yiannis197
Paid Member
Nice! We are close (I live in Enfield) so when I come back from my trip we are meeting
No I haven't had the discs refurb because I only fitted them about a month ago or something. They are brand new really Kelv.
No I haven't had the discs refurb because I only fitted them about a month ago or something. They are brand new really Kelv.
I'll try and help out here about a few things being discussed.
1 - a bigger disc will disperse heat better than a smaller disc is correct but a 330 2 piece disc has much less mass / contact area than a 312mm std full disc to disperse heat. You have the bell area on a std disc fully connected to the rota which will soak heat into the wheel and hub much better (good or bad thing is another discussion). The 2 piece disc holds lots of heat in the rota which escapes via pads, calipers and fluid which needs to be upgraded to suit along with additional cooling in extreme conditions to avoid boiling fluid.
2 - the downside to a solid disc is due to the rota and bell containing different temperatures when hot . This can cause the rota part of the disc to become untrue to the bell when at high temps due to the two different structures (rota thin 28mm and bell big chunk of steel) causing vibration. Some 2 piece set up's float to allow the disc to always center on the pad making a better more constant contact area.
The additional weight of a large single piece disc is also a major factor for unsprung weight.
A pf330 and ds2500's has absolutely no chance of outperforming std 197 discs and ds1.11's in heavy track / race conditions. Spirited street / first few laps on track then defiantly yes.
As for Clio cup racer / megane regs etc, all brake set ups have been tested at race level on the megane by a Clio cup race driver. After testing every brake set up, pads and discs he decided to try his clio racer set up and never looked back. Has anyone on here actually raced a well driven clio racer on track and out braked it?
They produce stonking constantly quick laps due to there cornering and braking ability.
Hope that helps,
John.
1 - a bigger disc will disperse heat better than a smaller disc is correct but a 330 2 piece disc has much less mass / contact area than a 312mm std full disc to disperse heat. You have the bell area on a std disc fully connected to the rota which will soak heat into the wheel and hub much better (good or bad thing is another discussion). The 2 piece disc holds lots of heat in the rota which escapes via pads, calipers and fluid which needs to be upgraded to suit along with additional cooling in extreme conditions to avoid boiling fluid.
2 - the downside to a solid disc is due to the rota and bell containing different temperatures when hot . This can cause the rota part of the disc to become untrue to the bell when at high temps due to the two different structures (rota thin 28mm and bell big chunk of steel) causing vibration. Some 2 piece set up's float to allow the disc to always center on the pad making a better more constant contact area.
The additional weight of a large single piece disc is also a major factor for unsprung weight.
A pf330 and ds2500's has absolutely no chance of outperforming std 197 discs and ds1.11's in heavy track / race conditions. Spirited street / first few laps on track then defiantly yes.
As for Clio cup racer / megane regs etc, all brake set ups have been tested at race level on the megane by a Clio cup race driver. After testing every brake set up, pads and discs he decided to try his clio racer set up and never looked back. Has anyone on here actually raced a well driven clio racer on track and out braked it?
They produce stonking constantly quick laps due to there cornering and braking ability.
Hope that helps,
John.
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Three questions:
1. Whay haven't you considered the combination of 1.11 pads and pf330 discs?
2. The pf330 discs will result in an increased brake torque which will improve braking, but there is no mention of this benefit. Any particular reason why?
3. "Has anyone on here actually raced a well driven clio racer on track and out braked it?" What exactly are you asking; has anyone tried to out brake a stripped Clio race car in their heavier road going car?
1. Whay haven't you considered the combination of 1.11 pads and pf330 discs?
2. The pf330 discs will result in an increased brake torque which will improve braking, but there is no mention of this benefit. Any particular reason why?
3. "Has anyone on here actually raced a well driven clio racer on track and out braked it?" What exactly are you asking; has anyone tried to out brake a stripped Clio race car in their heavier road going car?
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I'm not saying a 2 piece is crap, quite the opposite as most race cars use them. Just pointing out the reasons why people may be having problems with fade on a road car and a set up which is very cheap and will out perform 330's and 2500's with ease on heavy track work.
I see you use 330's and 3000's which will give incredible stopping power. 3000's are easy on disc life which is good for your rotors but crap for pad life.
3000's can also be bad for pad transfer (brake judder) if not used right.
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