Air Filters, do they actually make a difference?

[p3nn]

Afternoon Guys,

Trying to get to the bottom of whether or not i'm suffering from the placebo effect lol.

Basically me and my mate did a big service on my cars, loads of thing swapped and sorted, sparks, oil, oil filter, pads, and it's been running great, brakes feel like they could stop a train now and much more murmurs/crackles coming out my exhaust

Only thing that's been bugging me is that we swapped and super old KTEC air filter for a MANN+Hummel one.

My mechanic mate told me it really doesn't matter but now i can't help but feel like there's not as much noise from the engine/doesn't pull as hard.

Tbh it's probably just me but wonder if someone with a bit more mechanic knowledge could enlighten me!

Any ideas?

 

[Micah]

I'm no mechanic but I've just removed my KTEC filter and put the old air box on with a K&N panel filter and it's much more responsive. It's a known fact/myth (??) that you lose power from a cone filter unless you have the car mapped with it on.

 

[Jordanfaf]

I had a K&N panel filter, changed it to a standard in my last service and there was no noticeable difference.

That's not to say there is no benifiy, I'm sure it's just neglegable as a stand alone mod

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[Lewjew]

If you have an open cone filter then you tend to lose a few bhp as the engine will be sucking in hot air.

With a closed filter (eg performance panel filter in the standard air box) you normally gain a few bhp as the performance filter is less restrictive so the engine can get more air.

Differences are minimal though and you probably wouldn't notice them

 

[Micah]

Yes, I'm sure there are no noticeable differences between panel filters, I thought you meant you had a KTEC cone filter. The only difference will be the sound as I'm convinced the K&N lets a bit more growl through. You can remove the butterfly valve for a bit more noise.

 

[Dystant]

Oh god, this can of worms...

In terms of you feeling like there's not as much noise anymore, the new filter could be worse than the old one in terms of how much air it's letting into the engine, which could decrease the noise.

If you want input about filters there's a few things I've found after a bit of research when I had this question.

Induction kits/cone filters all lack decent cold air feeds, so they might get more air into the engine and make it louder, but chances are they're sucking in warm air, which is bad. Also you're going to pay quite a lot for little if any gains, maybe even loss of hp. But it will probably sound better/deeper so if that's what you want, go for it!

In my honest opinion, I would stick with the OEM setup (which Renault spent millions researching and has 2 cold air feeds), and just stick an aftermarket panel filter in there to replace the OEM one. Apprently the ITG panel filter is a decent one and people on here say they can feel the difference, but I've heard the K&N panel filter is also good.

The harsh reality is, don't expect much in terms of performance/gains because you'll be disappointed... unless you relocate the battery to the boot and fit a V6 airbox.

 

[p3nn]

Thanks for giving me some info lads!

When i said air filter i meant panel filter!? Not sure if they're the same thing lol?

Might look into getting an ITG one shortly then if that's what people things decent, seen a few posts about them before, just wonder if my ECU is throwing a wobbler because of the change of airflow from the KTEC filter that was in!

Also not sure if it's been re-mapped in the past but wouldn't be surprised, it's got a few mods on it and had a few owners before myself.

 

[Dystant]

Air filter is the generic term which covers all air filters, then you've got specific types of air filters such as cone filters and panel filters etc

If you're just changing the filter I don't think that would warrant a remap, it might help but I wouldn't get it done just for changing the filter.

Actually come to think of it, your ECU might just need some time to adjust to the different air filter, if you drive it 50/100 miles or so it should readjust itself (somebody may have to correct me if I'm wrong though)

 

[Micah]

@matthewson is selling his panel filter on here, having bought my KTEC

 

[p3nn]

Air filter is the generic term which covers all air filters, then you've got specific types of air filters such as cone filters and panel filters etc

If you're just changing the filter I don't think that would warrant a remap, it might help but I wouldn't get it done just for changing the filter.

Actually come to think of it, your ECU might just need some time to adjust to the different air filter, if you drive it 50/100 miles or so it should readjust itself (somebody may have to correct me if I'm wrong though)

Thanks for clearing that up! I work in IT so i understand servers and virtualization but engines baffle me for now

 

[LOCKE]

Any new panel air filter for normal road use will work just as good, it's when they get dirty the efficiency drops. When I bought my R27 it had a KTR panel filter in it, to me it didn't look well made so I swapped it for an ITG. Reason being they are quality, it was cheaper than the K&N and can be washed.

 

[sevenfourate]

Oh god, this can of worms...

In terms of you feeling like there's not as much noise anymore, the new filter could be worse than the old one in terms of how much air it's letting into the engine, which could decrease the noise.

If you want input about filters there's a few things I've found after a bit of research when I had this question.

Induction kits/cone filters all lack decent cold air feeds, so they might get more air into the engine and make it louder, but chances are they're sucking in warm air, which is bad. Also you're going to pay quite a lot for little if any gains, maybe even loss of hp. But it will probably sound better/deeper so if that's what you want, go for it!

In my honest opinion, I would stick with the OEM setup (which Renault spent millions researching and has 2 cold air feeds), and just stick an aftermarket panel filter in there to replace the OEM one. Apprently the ITG panel filter is a decent one and people on here say they can feel the difference, but I've heard the K&N panel filter is also good.

The harsh reality is, don't expect much in terms of performance/gains because you'll be disappointed... unless you relocate the battery to the boot and fit a V6 airbox.

Some great info here Dale. But not sure if i wholly agree with a couple of parts.

****Renault spent millions developing a system with 2 cold air feeds (One of which has the inlet actually in the engine bay - doesn't therefore suck in cold air - and infact has an acoustic valve on the end that doesn't open until 5000rpm. And then it actually sucks in warmish air.


And in regard of airflow - its the same as remapping in effect (Which as standard is a balance of noise, emissions, servicing, fuel quality etc)......and the standard airbox system is the same. "A compromise" at best - taking into account emissions, fuel consumption, noise levels etc.

So in my opinion if your prepared to forego a bit more noise, can put up with a few less MPG, if you add a cold air feed to a cone filter / modify the inlet with the acoustic valve on / put a less restrictive filter in the original box you may well gain some power. It might very well be at the expense of something else (Noise or MPG for example).....but if your solely chasing power (Unlike the Renault designers original brief) i think as good as the system is - it can likely be improved upon. Especially if then coupled with a remap.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[DS197]

I'm no mechanic but I've just removed my KTEC filter and put the old air box on with a K&N panel filter and it's much more responsive. It's a known fact/myth (??) that you lose power from a cone filter unless you have the car mapped with it on.

Isn't the loss of power due to heatsoak, which a remap can't cure?

 

[Chris]

Some great info here Dale. But not sure if i wholly agree with a couple of parts.

****Renault spent millions developing a system with 2 cold air feeds (One of which has the inlet actually in the engine bay - doesn't therefore suck in cold air - and infact has an acoustic valve on the end that doesn't open until 5000rpm. And then it actually sucks in warmish air.


And in regard of airflow - its the same as remapping in effect (Which as standard is a balance of noise, emissions, servicing, fuel quality etc)......and the standard airbox system is the same. "A compromise" at best - taking into account emissions, fuel consumption, noise levels etc.

So in my opinion if your prepared to forego a bit more noise, can put up with a few less MPG, if you add a cold air feed to a cone filter / modify the inlet with the acoustic valve on / put a less restrictive filter in the original box you may well gain some power. It might very well be at the expense of something else (Noise or MPG for example).....but if your solely chasing power (Unlike the Renault designers original brief) i think as good as the system is - it can likely be improved upon. Especially if then coupled with a remap.

Just my humble opinion.

Valid points made here.

Open cone filters in these cars I can't see you not loosing, never mind gaining, they just take far too much of the warm engine air, and the renault system is designed to drag the air in from outside with feeds that lead to the airbox...


Actually about the OP's question, the aftermarket filters are of better quality, as lets face it, Renault are on a budget and I think there standard filters are pretty par at best. These aftermarket companies invest a lot of money getting there product to work as well as possible, which is lets face it, maximising air flow and minimising contaminates into the engine.

So I think its worth the £20... Shame it can mess up warranty on newer cars or id have changed by now.

 

[Dystant]

Some great info here Dale. But not sure if i wholly agree with a couple of parts.

****Renault spent millions developing a system with 2 cold air feeds (One of which has the inlet actually in the engine bay - doesn't therefore suck in cold air - and infact has an acoustic valve on the end that doesn't open until 5000rpm. And then it actually sucks in warmish air.

Apologies, I thought the second was a cold air feed so you're right, but technically the air it's sucking in is colder than the air it would be sucking in if it weren't there at all, so removing it say in favor of a cone filter, in my mind would be a bad idea

Also the problem of it not opening until 5000rpm can be fixed by removing the acoustic valve I believe as that was only there to abide by E.U noise regulations?

I think all this stuff is mostly down to opinion/preference as I don't believe there's any hard evidence to suggest one is better than the other and you can always find arguments for and against changing the OEM setup.

Plus it's all down to what you want isn't it at the end of the day as you said mate; power, MPG or noise

 

[sevenfourate]

Apologies, I thought the second was a cold air feed so you're right, but technically the air it's sucking in is colder than the air it would be sucking in if it weren't there at all, so removing it say in favor of a cone filter, in my mind would be a bad idea

Also the problem of it not opening until 5000rpm can be fixed by removing the acoustic valve I believe as that was only there to abide by E.U noise regulations?

I think all this stuff is mostly down to opinion/preference as I don't believe there's any hard evidence to suggest one is better than the other and you can always find arguments for and against changing the OEM setup.

Absolutely M8. Its just my random thoughts sitting here. Im no more an induction system / airbox designer than you i'm guessing

The problem of 'Just' removing the acoustic valve though - is the inlet would then be fairly well back in the engine bay - and not near the front; near a through-flow of cold air. So by removing it your still likely to be sucking in 'warmish' air - as opposed to if you carried that inlet pipe forward toward the front of the car or directed another cold air feed from the front toward it.