Renaultsport power figures from factory..
- Thread starter Antti O
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Most of the 197 and 200 are about 10 bhp down on what renault reckons.
It should be a good case for the European Court :001_huh: I wonder how long it took them to find a clio 197 engine that actually made the numbers lol
It should be a good case for the European Court :001_huh: I wonder how long it took them to find a clio 197 engine that actually made the numbers lol
no not really, they probably are pushing there stated power, set up on bench in there labs/workshop, rolling roads only calculate fly wheel power figures, whos to say that from one dyno to the next is right?
There has been enough 197 and 200 on plenty of reliable and accurate dynos to show they are usually down on power.
Whilst it would be nice to think all of that is just b0llocks or can be ignored because some fella, somewhere, at some random time got 200 bhp, unfortunately its case proven!
dont forget there are so many variables that affect this. even airtemp can cause power / torque to change its also worth noting that Renault use an engine dyno to check the power not the standard dyno you fire your car on to. I dare say that the engine does make 197 bhp on the proper engine dyno.
like ive said, dynos arent reliable or accurate, as fly wheel power is calculated not measures, even power at the wheels is calculated, its the torque that measured at the wheels/next to its rpm. granted you may get the odd clio make there stated power or civic type r make slightly more, but for all we know the odd clio that make the book figure maybe well above it stated power when on the bench at renault? a civic type r is a different engine with a different gearbox thus different calculation, so dyno read outs aint the worth the paper there wrighten on.
Think what you like regarding dynos and accuracy, if you have been around the clio 197 and 200 long enough you know the real answer. Short changed!
The real answer is that a Rolling Road cannot accurately read Engine BHP.
No matter what the operator says or what anybody tells you, all RR's make a calculated guess at the figure. If the calculation is wrong or the calibration is wrong then your figures will be wrong. There's is no regulatory body for RR's and so none of them in this country have been checked against an Engine Dyno' to create a baseline and therefore provide accurate results. Like has been said already, there are SO many variables that can effect the results on a RR that they are massively unreliable.
They're good for comparison runs after fitting modifications and they're good for controlled environment ECU mapping... Until every car is ran on the same RR everybody's results mean the grand sum of f?ck all. If everybody in the country used the same RR then although the results could still be inaccurate then at least everybody would be using the same calculation and calibration so the differences in BHP from car to car would at least be reliable...
The ONLY way to accurately measure the power of an engine is on an Engine Dyno'.
BHP does NOT exist, it is a fictional unit.
All that can be measured is Torque.
No matter what the operator says or what anybody tells you, all RR's make a calculated guess at the figure. If the calculation is wrong or the calibration is wrong then your figures will be wrong. There's is no regulatory body for RR's and so none of them in this country have been checked against an Engine Dyno' to create a baseline and therefore provide accurate results. Like has been said already, there are SO many variables that can effect the results on a RR that they are massively unreliable.
They're good for comparison runs after fitting modifications and they're good for controlled environment ECU mapping... Until every car is ran on the same RR everybody's results mean the grand sum of f?ck all. If everybody in the country used the same RR then although the results could still be inaccurate then at least everybody would be using the same calculation and calibration so the differences in BHP from car to car would at least be reliable...
The ONLY way to accurately measure the power of an engine is on an Engine Dyno'.
BHP does NOT exist, it is a fictional unit.
All that can be measured is Torque.
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bring round clios a very long time, not saying that they make book figure, but also not saying that they dont, for all we know they could be making stock figures at the fly, but with loses through the drive train, then dynos calculating power at wheel using torque measured compared to revs etc etc then calculating (guesing) the fly wheel it could be reading down. whether as other makes and models could under estimate there engine power out puts so it looks good when they make more.
Trying to rubbish dynos in general though is just a weak argument to make yourself feel better about the large pool of poor but valid data out there.
So, all those thousands of other cars that consistently make their claimed power on those same dynos are also rubbish results then? Very strange that. Maybe its all just a 197/200 conspiracy.
Renault has mugged us over on 197 and 200 power for years. We just have to accept it.
How would you explain Citroen and Peugeot claiming different power outputs for the same engine?
Manufacturers can claim any figure they want, they can be conservative to help drop their cars into lower insurance groups or they can be honest and leave things be or they can use engine dyno' figures (most accurate) which will always be higher than anything a RR would read out and put up with people moaning about it... There's no regulated system for it and then when you consider that anything mass-produced will have a tolerance range anyway, every single engine part will have its own, then it's very easy to get a car that is below book power or above book power.
Then there's owners generally favouring one tuner or another and then using the results from them as gospel and anybody who gets a different result elsewhere must either be lying or the other tuners dyno' must be "generous" and all the rest of it. Take the RS world for example, most people go to either K-Tec or RSTuning for mapping and the same car can vary in power from K-Tec to RSTuning rollers. So, who's giving the more accurate figure? Some say K-Tec read high, some say RSTuning are conservative...
Rolling Roads are a law unto themselves!!!
Manufacturers can claim any figure they want, they can be conservative to help drop their cars into lower insurance groups or they can be honest and leave things be or they can use engine dyno' figures (most accurate) which will always be higher than anything a RR would read out and put up with people moaning about it... There's no regulated system for it and then when you consider that anything mass-produced will have a tolerance range anyway, every single engine part will have its own, then it's very easy to get a car that is below book power or above book power.
Then there's owners generally favouring one tuner or another and then using the results from them as gospel and anybody who gets a different result elsewhere must either be lying or the other tuners dyno' must be "generous" and all the rest of it. Take the RS world for example, most people go to either K-Tec or RSTuning for mapping and the same car can vary in power from K-Tec to RSTuning rollers. So, who's giving the more accurate figure? Some say K-Tec read high, some say RSTuning are conservative...
Rolling Roads are a law unto themselves!!!
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Rolling roads are generally useless for one off power figures.
The only use of them is for before and after runs after modifications.
If they were in any way accurate then results would not vary so much between different rolling roads.
The only use of them is for before and after runs after modifications.
If they were in any way accurate then results would not vary so much between different rolling roads.
Ive no need to make myself better about anything mate, your the one trying to argue this and that with out facts other than what a dyno says. Where did i say i was rubbishing other makes? All i said is make X could under quote there engines power just be on the safe side, not as if its unheard of, some have been doing it for years. dynos are only good for one thing and that is comparing when adding mods.
Even if the clios are down on power from what renault say they are still as quick as civic type r's etc.
Too many people get focused on figures on paper, bhp, 0-60 etc when in the real world it doesn't mean that much.
People slagged off 182s and all that for same thing "down on power" but they were still rapid for what they were and were just as fast if not faster than the equivalent hot hatches out at that time.
Too many people get focused on figures on paper, bhp, 0-60 etc when in the real world it doesn't mean that much.
People slagged off 182s and all that for same thing "down on power" but they were still rapid for what they were and were just as fast if not faster than the equivalent hot hatches out at that time.
Agree. BHP figures only good for playing 'top trumps' on forums or quoting down the pub!!!! I still quote them though (lol)...nothing wrong with a bit of willie wavin' (excuse the pun)!!!!
thats because the clio developes more "torque" at lower revs than the type r - its only saved by revving higher to produce more power...
Maybe I need to repeat my self again LOL
A RR is good for before and after mods, single runs need to be looked at carefully and the situation they are run in......... but when you have 7 YEARS of continuous 197/200 RR data where they are consistently down on claimed power, the conclusion is obvious.
Some folk just dont want to acknowledge it.
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