No two engines are identical are they? paul said mine was one of the stronger ones he had come across 
Power Figures after cam package
- Thread starter Aford197
- Start date
Raptor6767
Gold Member
No two engines are identical are they? paul said mine was one of the stronger ones he had come across
Strongest or not - there should be a noticeable difference in bhp with the cams & remap.
Yiannis197
Paid Member
There is a great output range on these engines. We've seen engines giving 180+bhp and some giving close to 200bhp. How you break the engine in plays a significant role and allegedly if you are driving like a granny when the car is new is not doing the engine any favours whatsoever.
As people said, it's the before and after. Mine was on the low side and all the upgrades extracted another 20bhp from the engine, pretty happy as I wasn't expecting more tbh. I wouldn't do that again though that's for sure, however it's always difficult to funnel 5k+ on the car straight away for an engine swap, gradually modifying the car paying considerably less at a time works if you don't have the funds in the first place.
Just a personal comment, If I was about to start from scratch I wouldn't mod the car at all, good tyres, good pads and consumables, saving my money for something else in the future. I've now spent so much that I really can't see me selling which is a shame because I'm really itching atm.
As people said, it's the before and after. Mine was on the low side and all the upgrades extracted another 20bhp from the engine, pretty happy as I wasn't expecting more tbh. I wouldn't do that again though that's for sure, however it's always difficult to funnel 5k+ on the car straight away for an engine swap, gradually modifying the car paying considerably less at a time works if you don't have the funds in the first place.
Just a personal comment, If I was about to start from scratch I wouldn't mod the car at all, good tyres, good pads and consumables, saving my money for something else in the future. I've now spent so much that I really can't see me selling which is a shame because I'm really itching atm.
In most circumstances you ain't gonna notice an increase of 5-10 hp unless you started with 5-10
Raptor6767
Gold Member
Oh...believe me you'll notice a 10bhp increase in our Clio's!In most circumstances you ain't gonna notice an increase of 5-10 hp unless you started with 5-10
Especially if the power is gained all across the revrange.
I guarantee you that.
How much of that feeling is down to the mods compared to just a map to smooth out the power delivery and rid any flat spots though?
Raptor6767
Gold Member
I can tell you that with 15bhp that I've gained compared to my car on the same rollers when it was stock, and to the other stock 197 - my car gained at least 8 lengths of a car.
I would dare to say 10 but it's been a while since I've raced stock 197 and I had a couple more mods in the meantime.
This is my car with only 10bhp more:
2009.
[video=youtube_share;m7tHkmZDwAs]http://youtu.be/m7tHkmZDwAs[/video]
And here's the dyno with that power in the video compared to my stock Clio.
After that I've installed a V6 airbox and gained another 5bhp and 3 car lengths. Here's the dyno compared with my stock Clio:
And this is how fast it was with that power:
[video=youtube_share;rRw_oyIKewU]http://youtu.be/rRw_oyIKewU[/video]
I would dare to say 10 but it's been a while since I've raced stock 197 and I had a couple more mods in the meantime.
This is my car with only 10bhp more:
2009.
[video=youtube_share;m7tHkmZDwAs]http://youtu.be/m7tHkmZDwAs[/video]
And here's the dyno with that power in the video compared to my stock Clio.
After that I've installed a V6 airbox and gained another 5bhp and 3 car lengths. Here's the dyno compared with my stock Clio:
And this is how fast it was with that power:
[video=youtube_share;rRw_oyIKewU]http://youtu.be/rRw_oyIKewU[/video]
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Raptor6767
Gold Member
And I hope, after the last few mods - car will be even faster. I'm aiming for 10-15bhp more. That should give me another 3-4 lengths of a car.
Spot on Mr Y. I bought my Cat C toy as it allowed to use it as a big Meccano set without worrying about losing money. First attempt for more power was cams. What a waste of money. I had a strong engine that made 196bhp standard on the reliable RST rollers. Cams fitted gave me 210bhp and although the lumpy cam sounded ace, all the cams do is push the power further up the rev range which is exactly were you don't need it in the NA engine. All of which for £1500. On the road no difference. What the NA engine needs is low down torque and bhp figures mean absolutely nothing.
Yiannis197
Paid Member
Yes but the f4r can not be described as a high rev engine like the kinds of the vtec screamers. It only revs up to 7150 rpm and we all know that it was originally built to be coupled with a turbo..
Raptor6767
Gold Member
It revs up to 7500rpm, and most ppl move the limiter to 7700/7800rpm when remapping the car.
It's unreal to expect a lot of torque/power down low in that engine. After my mods I find the car more responsive now in the 3.5-5.5krpm revrange than before and I think that there it made most of the difference that I can feel when giving 100% throttle.
It's unreal to expect a lot of torque/power down low in that engine. After my mods I find the car more responsive now in the 3.5-5.5krpm revrange than before and I think that there it made most of the difference that I can feel when giving 100% throttle.
I did mention im not chasing figures, I was just a bit sceptical about the work done and wanted to know if I need it correcting after mapping with the blocked kit, which it seems I would be best to do.
In terms of power the car is completely different but as also said I was driving round with 161bhp before the engine was changed and cams put in.
I find it strange that the same engine can vary so much, this car has a refurbed engine, all 4 pistons has compression at almost the highest they can read, brand new cams, fresh oil etc and still is less than 200, i would be interested to see if the lose the power or if they all came out the factory with varying numbers. Interestingly I did see on facebook a clio 4 RS running 189bhp which is not a good start.
In terms of power the car is completely different but as also said I was driving round with 161bhp before the engine was changed and cams put in.
I find it strange that the same engine can vary so much, this car has a refurbed engine, all 4 pistons has compression at almost the highest they can read, brand new cams, fresh oil etc and still is less than 200, i would be interested to see if the lose the power or if they all came out the factory with varying numbers. Interestingly I did see on facebook a clio 4 RS running 189bhp which is not a good start.
Yiannis197
Paid Member
Hm, not quite Raptor. The limiter on these engines from the factory is around 7150rpm on top of my head (stand to be corrected on the exact figure though). Now I'm aware that some people raise the limiters but this is utterly pointless because a stock engine - even one with fast road cams - does not produce any more power after 7200 (the power graph drops). It's more of a ''my car revs up to 7800rpm'' kind of thing rather than ''I have to exploit all the revs at the end side of the spectrum to utilise all the power''.
It's been said, to make this engine a screamer requires lots of hardware changes but still, it'd be undriveable for every day due to huge losses low down the rev range.
Raptor6767
Gold Member
Yiannis197
Paid Member
Raptor6767
Gold Member
My 197 on the rollers with stock rev limiter
[video=youtube_share;qWlgdMGAH44]http://youtu.be/qWlgdMGAH44[/video]
Clio might have a shift light set to the 7100-7200rpm but it revs up to 7500rpm.
[video=youtube_share;qWlgdMGAH44]http://youtu.be/qWlgdMGAH44[/video]
Clio might have a shift light set to the 7100-7200rpm but it revs up to 7500rpm.
Raptor6767
Gold Member
Still waiting to install the cams.
And my Clio, stock - back in 2009. You can see the rev limiter @ 7500rpm back then too.
Yiannis197
Paid Member
Going off subject now but hey Peak power on these comes around 7100 rpm so as I said it's pointless revving the guts out of it.
This is mine
According to the graph - which is never completely accurate - the limiter is around 7300 and it was then raised to 7500, no point as the power drops while peak power had already come at 7,200.
This is the later RST mapping when I took the Ktec maps off and installed Paul's.
Untitled by YiannisR27, on Flickr
Again, peak power at 7,200 rpm so far from being a screamer
Peak power on these comes around 7100 rpm so as I said it's pointless revving the guts out of it. This is mine
According to the graph - which is never completely accurate - the limiter is around 7300 and it was then raised to 7500, no point as the power drops while peak power had already come at 7,200.
This is the later RST mapping when I took the Ktec maps off and installed Paul's.
Untitled by YiannisR27, on FlickrAgain, peak power at 7,200 rpm so far from being a screamer
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