Steering problems/ 4 wheel alignment graph

[Luke_197]

Recently I've been experiencing problems with my steering. Basically feels like it's pulling to the right and wandering badly. Along a straight bit of road the steering sways from left to right slightly so it doesn't feel to safe if I'm honest. If I accelerate it pulls to the right(into oncoming traffic, lovely).

Took the car to Renault as its still got a few weeks warranty remaining and they replaced the lower arms as they found play in the ball joints. Took the car away and the car felt no different. Still had the same steering problems.

Threw it back at Renault and they then agreed to send it to different garage for a 4 wheel alignment. It got done today so here's the out come:



I'm no mechanic but to me it looks like virtually nothing has been changed. The front N/S camber is minus two minutes than before and the front total toe has changed slightly aswell.

Took the car down the road, still no difference again! [emoji35] Starting to get really wound up now.

My thoughts on what could be wrong:

*Worn lower swivel joints (Renault insist the is no play in any of the other ball joints)
*Misaligned subframe.
*Bent shock absorber.

ANY IDEAS WHAT IT COULD BE???

ALSO DOES THE PRINTOUT LOOK OK? Or has the mechanic been lazy with the adjustments?

 

[Matt W]

When I had a set-up done on my mx-5 the bloke took two hours getting both sides perfect. I would be gutted if I paid money and then saw those after results.

 

[Matt W]

How are your tyre pressures?

 

[Luke_197]

When I had a set-up done on my mx-5 the bloke took two hours getting both sides perfect. I would be gutted if I paid money and then saw those after results.

Tyres are perfect mate, I have a pump and pressure gauge at my house. They are checked every two weeks. Exactly, luckily I didn't pay as it was covered under warranty as part of the lower arms being fitted.

 

[Yiannis197]

Luke, did anything cause these kind of problems or did they just appear out of the blue?

The geo is fine, even though I'm very surprised about the toe on the rear axle. Geerally the rear wheels have toe in for stability not toe out like yours, especially the rear right has 20 minutes toe out, do you get any enhanced lift off oversteer when turning left?

Now if everything is fine in regards to ball joints etc then I can only think about the rack itself. Have you got any play at all? Wiggle the steering wheel when stopped and see if it's nice and smooth.

Also, an easier thing is to swap wheels to see if the problem persists. Sometimes the tyres can cause such a thing.

 

[Luke_197]

Luke, did anything cause these kind of problems or did they just appear out of the blue?

The geo is fine, even though I'm very surprised about the toe on the rear axle. Geerally the rear wheels have toe in for stability not toe out like yours, especially the rear right has 20 minutes toe out, do you get any enhanced lift off oversteer when turning left?

Now if everything is fine in regards to ball joints etc then I can only think about the rack itself. Have you got any play at all? Wiggle the steering wheel when stopped and see if it's nice and smooth.

Also, an easier thing is to swap wheels to see if the problem persists. Sometimes the tyres can cause such a thing.

Hi Yiannis, thanks for the useful advice. I started noticing the problem last year around September and it got progressively worst. I had some H&R springs (I hate them) put on in October and i could notice the wandering/pulling more after. I had a basic alignment done straight after fitting and was told the tracking was ok.

Ok, so is it possible to adjust the rear toe? I thought this was not possible on these cars? I haven't been driving my car very hard recently what with the bad weather and the steering problems, but can't say before that I've experienced any unexpected oversteer.

Oh dear now I'm worried, I will try this tomorrow. I've driven other 200 and I will admit the steering felt tighter than mine. If there is some play I will post a video so I can get some opinions.

I will also give changing the wheels ago. My tyres should be ok as the were replace not long only a few months back. Thanks again for the useful advise.

 

[Luke_197]

[MENTION=2045]Yiannis197[/MENTION] did a test to see if there was play in the steering rack. Tbh the wheels do move with the slightest movement as you can see in this video:

https://vimeo.com/120667117

It's alot easier to turn the steering wheel anti clockwise.

 

[Pav]

gutted mate..they should be able to replace the whole steering rack if still under warranty..i would pursue this..
as i recently discovered my rear shock absorbers are different -my car pulls to right slightly but nothing compare to urs..
hope u get it sorted soon

 

[Luke_197]

gutted mate..they should be able to replace the whole steering rack if still under warranty..i would pursue this..
as i recently discovered my rear shock absorbers are different -my car pulls to right slightly but nothing compare to urs..
hope u get it sorted soon

Ringing them this morning mate. They don't open until 8:30. [emoji4]

 

[Inspector101]

I know it's silly question but have you checked the wheel bearings are ok?

Cheers,

Dave

 

[Yiannis197]

Hi Luke.

To be honest if you had a play in the rack you would be able to feel it on the steering, if you can't feel anything then you are safe. The rear axle is not adjustable I'm afraid, you can only achieve the desired geo using camber/toe plates. I'm not saying that's why your car is pulling, it was just an observation on the printout

The fact that is is easier to turn the wheel anti clockwise is strange, shouldn't be this way but can't think what might be causing it. I wouldn't like to jump the gun and start saying it's the column or something but this is something that Renault can rectify? Anyway, swap the wheels and try again (I've seen car's pulling on new tyres), also check the subframe, mine was loose!

 

[Luke_197]

Cheers [MENTION=2045]Yiannis197[/MENTION].

Ok that's good news. I don't think there is play as the steering still feels pretty sharp.

The car is booked in for Tuesday so we will see what Renault say. I'll ask them the check the subframe and if that fails I'll swap over the wheels.

Do you recon some polyflex rear beam bushes would help sort the toe in slightly? I'll looks into camber/toe in plate as I would like it perfect.

Do you have a printout of your cars geometry so I've got something to work against. I'm looking at fitting kws clubsports and polybushes soon so it'll need another alignment after that.

 

[Stubonez]

I think you've got fairly new tyres? But I had this problem (was pulling very badly) got new tyres and it's completely stopped pulling and drives perfect now

 

[Yiannis197]

I'll take a pic of it mate and upload asap for reference I'm running 2.1 degrees negative camber and 10 minutes toe out at the front, 2.6 degrees negative camber and 30 minutes toe in at the back. I have top mounts and shims though so I adjusted the geo as I wanted...

 

[Luke_197]

[MENTION=52006]Stubonez[/MENTION] yeah fairly new mate I'll be switching the wheels around soon to see if it makes a difference. [emoji4]
[MENTION=2045]Yiannis197[/MENTION] thanks mate, much appreciated.

One more quick question, if I'm going to buy clubsports is it "nessesary" for me to buy the powerflex front wishbone bushes with "camber adjustment"? Obviously as you said the clubsports have the top mounts with camber adjustment, so wondering if I should save my money and go for the non adjustable bushes? [emoji4]

 

[Womble]

I think I would be finding out what is bent, or out of align. Depending on where you are you need a RS specialist to check it out. Fitting Clubsports is only going to mask your problems. You can fit shims to the back axle. I have seen a couple of bent axles on these cars. The people I use for my 4 wheel alignment would of found any problems. Although your car is not far out there is obviously a problem. The fact that they can't get all the numbers in the green points to something being bent. Axle

 

[Yiannis197]

I'm afraid I can't find my print out Luke but those are the values I mentioned earlier.
[MENTION=3821]Womble[/MENTION] this is what initially thought mate that's why I asked Luke if something happened which caused it. But apparently nothing happened so I can't see the axle bending itself out of the blue.

Luke, no point to go for the camber adjustable bushes mate as clubsports come with camber adjustable mounts.

 

[Womble]

Jacking the car up on the rear axle can bend it

 

[Luke_197]

[MENTION=3821]Womble[/MENTION] thanks for the advise mate. I think I may go to a specialist after Renault have had a look to check everything is 100 percent ok. I really hope its not bent. [emoji21] Thats going to be pricey isnt it. surely it would take alot to bend the axle?

@yiannis thanks for looking mate. Ill go by the values you gave me and ill buy the none adjustable front bushes. Did you notice much difference the front/rear and ARB bushes? and did you go for the rear beam bushes?

 

[Yiannis197]

No worries mate.

I haven't got any bushes fitted on my car so I can not comment. I have the camber at the front adjusted by top mounts and I have the rear geo sorted by camber/toe shims. Tempted to go for the caster bushes but all the work involved (fitting and tracking) is off putting. My car with the ASTs, solid top mounts, thicker ARB and some aggressive geo is very sharp as it is, can not justify spending the extra pennies for those atm.

Hope this helps