MK3 200 vs E36 325i

[FR200]

Hey all!
Just wondering if my cars got an issue or if this is normal, done a couple of hits with my mate and his E36 325i only done panel filter and 328i exhaust with back box gutted.
Couldn’t chase him all that well, especially from stand still, if we both went flat he wouldn’t pull but we’d stalemate (no one would gain ground).

I would’ve thought I’d of pulled on him, not massively but better than I did!

 

[DS197]

All things being equal, RWD will always have better launches than FWD. If you want straight line speed, do a meg conversion or buy a faster car.

 

[suj]

I had a track E36 328i, it had so much torque through the whole range, joys of inline 6 engines, especially as DS said from a dig it has from idle to redline.

I wouldn't worry too much, there's diesel cars that pull on my 197, then you go in Twisties and you remember why it is so loved!

 

[CM200]

Power to weight theyre nearly equal and actually fair a bit better if like me you have AC and sunroof.

Definitely not slouches and very capable cars. But dude it’s an in-line 6 very good engine. Sound damn good to.

I’m about equal with my mates 325i until we hit twisty then the Clio makes him jealous. No doubt if he got coilovers and decent tyres he could fair better.

One of my favourites or near enough “ straight roads are for fast cars, corners are for fast drivers. “

 

[lewishunter98]

I recently went to Bedford in my 197 with my mate in his E36 328i. On track there was barely anything in it at all between us, both cars being fairly 'specced'. On the straights he does pull on me slightly but it wasn't a massive difference really. Not enough anyway (say if I was in front, then he would gain on me in the straight but not enough to get passed. If I was behind then he would create a bigger gap but I'd close this up in the braking zones and corners)

In the bends the Clio holds more speed and is far better under braking.

For reference, few mods of mine:

Quaife LSD
B14 coilovers & pms top mounts
Polybushed throughout
AC deleted & 172 crank pulley
Recaro spg seats up front but still have rear interior
Predator manifold
Oreca catback
Protrack wheels & ns2r tyres


His 328i sport:

BC racing coilovers custom spring rates (can't remember what)
LSD with the M3 ratio. Think it's 3.15?
M50 manifold
Aftermarket headers (Toyo I think) & scorpion exhaust
Corbeau seat & track door cards
Polybushed throughout
E36 M3 wheels & ad08rs

Neither car is mapped and there's more but that's a basic run down [emoji23] but as I say there wasn't a whole lot in it. But it was mega fun chasing eachother.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

 

[CM200]

I recently went to Bedford in my 197 with my mate in his E36 328i. On track there was barely anything in it at all between us, both cars being fairly 'specced'. On the straights he does pull on me slightly but it wasn't a massive difference really. Not enough anyway (say if I was in front, then he would gain on me in the straight but not enough to get passed. If I was behind then he would create a bigger gap but I'd close this up in the braking zones and corners)

In the bends the Clio holds more speed and is far better under braking.

For reference, few mods of mine:

Quaife LSD
B14 coilovers & pms top mounts
Polybushed throughout
AC deleted & 172 crank pulley
Recaro spg seats up front but still have rear interior
Predator manifold
Oreca catback
Protrack wheels & ns2r tyres


His 328i sport:

BC racing coilovers custom spring rates (can't remember what)
LSD with the M3 ratio. Think it's 3.15?
M50 manifold
Aftermarket headers (Toyo I think) & scorpion exhaust
Corbeau seat & track door cards
Polybushed throughout
E36 M3 wheels & ad08rs

Neither car is mapped and there's more but that's a basic run down [emoji23] but as I say there wasn't a whole lot in it. But it was mega fun chasing eachother.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

For sure! Amazes me what the little things are capable of.

Sorry to hijack the thread but how’s the 172 pulley ?

 

[lewishunter98]

For sure! Amazes me what the little things are capable of.

Sorry to hijack the thread but how’s the 172 pulley ?

You and me both. I've never had so much fun in a car! Apart from maybe a courtesy car and the work van but sshhhhhh

It's hard to say. My throttle response seems better and I want to say it feels more urgent. Like even in the dreaded 2-3k range I plant it and it lurches forward. I definitely feel like it goes through gears well but I also lost a bit of weight on the AC delete, lighter wheels all round too & then the lighter 172 pulley, there was a lot of rotational mass lost in those. I like the fact it's still a damped pulley too. Ideally I need to compare with another Clio as I don't know how much of it could be placebo?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

 

[CM200]

You and me both. I've never had so much fun in a car! Apart from maybe a courtesy car and the work van but sshhhhhh

It's hard to say. My throttle response seems better and I want to say it feels more urgent. Like even in the dreaded 2-3k range I plant it and it lurches forward. I definitely feel like it goes through gears well but I also lost a bit of weight on the AC delete, lighter wheels all round too & then the lighter 172 pulley, there was a lot of rotational mass lost in those. I like the fact it's still a damped pulley too. Ideally I need to compare with another Clio as I don't know how much of it could be placebo?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Haha can always borrow myn!

Polar opposite to yours XD

 

[John Gordon]

My two colleagues/friends and I all have track cars.

I have a Clio, 1275kg and 266HP/331Ft

They both have e46 328ci. Stripped, suspension nothing major on engine front except breathing.

They are about as fast as me on the straight and can take faster sweeping corners quicker than I can. I tend to beat them on the brakes and through the more technical sections, unless its damp/wet and they gain some advantage.

Im a little heavier than they are (I have carpets and radio and trim).

BMW, wider track, longer wheel base creates a much more stable platform which can't change direction as quick as the Clio.

My conclusion, very similar pace on track, but the BMW is a much more cost effective track weapon. Its going to cost a bit more to keep the Clio on pace the further you develop them both.

 

[suj]

Yeah as you said John it goes back to longer wheelbases, you gain faster speed stability compared to a shorter wheelbase that then have better turn in for the slower speed technical corners.

I do miss my track E36 328i it was loads of fun and did surprise many cars on track / Ring, they used to be cost effective but now their prices have gone up a shit tonne, I paid £600 for it (non M-sport manual), now a similar one is like £3k. So Clios are probably more cost effective currently for what you get straight out the box.

 

[RSRowe]

Clio is 4” wider than an E36 and 2-3” wider than an E46....

Whilst I completely agree with the point you make against short and long wheelbase stability, I can’t say I’ve ever felt like I’ve driven a Clio and though ‘wow this is unstable’

 

[suj]

No it's more that when you drive an E36 on long fast corners you have more stability. Not saying the Clio isn't stable like you said.
Like the E36 was fine in more technical corners, but then if you did same corners in a Clio you'd say it's better at them / can change direction quicker.

 

[CM200]

Baguette vs bratwurst?

 

[John Gordon]

Clio is 4” wider than an E36 and 2-3” wider than an E46....

Whilst I completely agree with the point you make against short and long wheelbase stability, I can’t say I’ve ever felt like I’ve driven a Clio and though ‘wow this is unstable’

Corners at 100mph+ and to me, you can feel the back end is light. You don't get that feeling in the bigger platform. Was the same with the 205 and 309. 309 felt more confident in the high speed stuff.

Also agree, never would I say the Clio is unstable, just a bigger raft will always be more stable than a smaller one.

 

[RSRowe]

Maybe it’s just my driving style..... or lack of experience driving other cars

 

[John Gordon]

Maybe it’s just my driving style..... or lack of experience driving other cars

You might just be a better driver

 

[Helpimonfire]

So I've got an e46 330ci and my 197. Neither are built as track cars (yet) but I'd say the Clio feels quicker everywhere than the 330. The BMW feels mega heavy in comparison but I've no doubt that a decent driver would feel different when comparing them.

@tombate911 has a mega 330ci track toy so he'd be able to tell you more. I know it's an E46 but I can't imagine there's much difference across the 2 surely?