Michelin Clio series

[nicfred]

if you were going to enter this which Clio would you buy?
I'm guessing either of the cups, 197 or 200?
Which would be best suited ? ?
You can pick up a 197 cup for nearly half the 200 cup price but is the 200 the one to have if you are going to race it or is the difference in engine,gear ratios,better steering,worth the extra money?
Suspension i guess doesnt matter as they will be included in the kit you can buy

 

[nicfred]

best car for new series,197 or 200

I asked this question on another thread but it got closed,I think due to misunderstanding,so I'll try again.

If you were going to enter this which Clio would you buy?
I'm guessing either of the cups, 197 or 200?
Which would be best suited ? ?
You can pick up a 197 cup for nearly half the 200 cup price but is the 200 the one to have if you are going to race it or is the difference in engine,gear ratios,better steering,not worth the extra money?
Suspension i guess doesn't matter as they will be included in the kit you can buy

 

[Willis]

There's next to no difference between the two cars apart from the 200 has an ugly face and about 2BHP more. The gearing is meant to be slightly "better" in the 200 but bear in mind on track you'll be between 5,000RPM-8,000RPM at all times anyway really to get the most out of the engine so I wouldn't worry too much about ratios. Off the line there's nothing between them... Of course if you get an older 197 with high mileage (which would be the best option to convert really) then the money you'll save in buying it will pretty much pay for the conversion kit from Renaultsport (prices start around £3,000).

It's worth noting that all they did with the 197 Cup cars was stick 200 bumpers on...

Cup chassis will make no difference to you as you'll be having to use the spec' suspension anyway. So just buy the cheapest 197 you can find and as long as the engine and gearbox are decent then you'll be fine.

 

[Foxspeed]

200 cup as it has all the updates on it...

 

[Fernandez]

200 cup as it has all the updates on it...

This, plus its far better looking then a 197

 

[Willis]

Why would you buy a car for a suspension package that you'd be removing anyway?

Barring the minute engine/gearbox changes it'd make more sense financially to buy an old 197. If you think you could pick up a 197 for around £4,000 then add the minimum £3,000 spec' package to it then you're still going to have money spare for registration and towards consumables compared against a 200 that'd cost you £7,000 minimum for the car alone. If the sole use of the car is to convert it for the series then why spend an extra £3,000 minimum on the base car that you're only going to strip the interior and suspension from anyway. False economy...

 

[Foxspeed]

This, plus its far better looking then a 197

ignore that remark :f1team07:

 

[Willis]

ignore that remark :f1team07:

:thumbup:

 

[Seventh Seal]

There's next to no difference between the two cars apart from the 200 has an ugly face and about 2BHP more. The gearing is meant to be slightly "better" in the 200 but bear in mind on track you'll be between 5,000RPM-8,000RPM at all times anyway really to get the most out of the engine so I wouldn't worry too much about ratios. Off the line there's nothing between them... Of course if you get an older 197 with high mileage (which would be the best option to convert really) then the money you'll save in buying it will pretty much pay for the conversion kit from Renaultsport (prices start around £3,000).

It's worth noting that all they did with the 197 Cup cars was stick 200 bumpers on...

Cup chassis will make no difference to you as you'll be having to use the spec' suspension anyway. So just buy the cheapest 197 you can find and as long as the engine and gearbox are decent then you'll be fine.

Not correct, 200 engine has more torque and a different steering rack.

Would be VERY interested to know what the suspension changes are. Clio rally car is stated in the advertisement.

 

[Robo_#1]

Cup chassis will make no difference to you as you'll be having to use the spec' suspension anyway. So just buy the cheapest 197 you can find and as long as the engine and gearbox are decent then you'll be fine.

Totally agree with this. Yes the 200 is the better car (more torque etc.) but there's no way I'd pay the difference in price for slightly more power, longer ratio gears (can't see why you'd want that for track use anyway?) and a slightly quicker rack. I don't see the 200s being anymore competitive than an equally well driven 197.

 

[Willis]

Torque = Mapping.
Steering Rack = ~£300.

So add that to the shopping list of a 197 and you're still saving a f?ckton over a 200. If you were that way inclined you could even put the 200 bumpers onto the 197 and nobody would know any different. That's what Renaultsport themselves did when the Clio Cup changed from 197 to 200s, everybody just bought some new bumpers. If you wanted to be pedantic then the front ARB is different too, so stick another £200 onto the costs and yep, you're still quids in...

 

[Seventh Seal]

Totally agree with this. Yes the 200 is the better car (more torque etc.) but there's no way I'd pay the difference in price for slightly more power, longer ratio gears (can't see why you'd want that for track use anyway?) and a slightly quicker rack. I don't see the 200s being anymore competitive than an equally well driven 197.

Yes perhaps not in every case, but when your racing anything that gives you a competitive edge you'd be a fool not to have.

+ Most people that race will replace all joints/bearings etc and have a full spares package. So you have to factor that in if not using a newer car.

 

[Robo_#1]

Yes perhaps not in every case, but when your racing anything that gives you a competitive edge you'd be a fool not to have.

+ Most people that race will replace all joints/bearings etc and have a full spares package. So you have to factor that in if not using a newer car.

Not sure if I follow you there? If your going to change the joints/bearings either way what difference does it make how old the car is?

 

[Seventh Seal]

Not sure if I follow you there? If your going to change the joints/bearings either way what difference does it make how old the car is?

If you buy a new car then there's no need.

 

[Robo_#1]

Yeah, but f*ck buying a new car from Renault to tear it down for this series. If you're gonna throw that much money at it you may as well look at getting a cup racer.

 

[Seventh Seal]

Ha, not saying I would, But cup racer you're talking alot more money. Gearbox rebuilds, full slicks aren't cheap. + It's not a 16k + 3k. It's more like a 40k+ car I imagine.

 

[nicfred]

Yeah, but f*ck buying a new car from Renault to tear it down for this series. If you're gonna throw that much money at it you may as well look at getting a cup racer.

Thanks for all the replies, by the look of the majority it looks like a 197 is the way to go, doesn't matter if its cup or not as the kit will have the suspension in it and as said the money i save on the car i can spend on the kit,is the steering rack that much better on the 200 for the extra ammount of money? When racing if the 200 has the edge then its worth spending the extra on it, every little hepls ??
I know from racing my MX5 Mk1 that its worth spending that extra to start with, my MX5 cost me £5000, it was a new build from a road car, so had not been raced, all panels were nice and new and shiny etc etc, i could have got a ex race proven car for around a £1500 more but it also was around 3 hours drive each way further and had a few dents and scrapes, so went for the nearer and cheaper nice looking car option, i have now spent around the same ammount of money on the car and still it is not 100%, so looking back should i have gone for the other one, yes.
On the same day around the same track how much quicker will the 200 be? if i knew that then i could decide which to buy, as always money is a factor but as said above its better to buy the right one first time? ? ?

 

[Willis]

On the same day with the same driver on the same track, you could probably just squeeze a cig paper between a 197 and 200!!!

The 200 Cup steering rack is a fair bit quicker, I believe it's around a 7% improvement, sure I've read that somewhere. I know what you mean about buy right buy once, but really there's very little difference between the two engines/gearboxes. The chassis, or at least the parts you'll be keeping, are identical between the two cars and if you prefer the look of the 200 then you can easily retrofit the bumpers to a 197. If it was me doing it, I'd go for a 197 purely on the grounds of bang per buck. The difference will be negligible between the two cars and consumables will be the same price on either 197 or 200 so the only place you'll really save money is the intial purchase of the car.

 

[Seventh Seal]

Thanks for all the replies, by the look of the majority it looks like a 197 is the way to go, doesn't matter if its cup or not as the kit will have the suspension in it and as said the money i save on the car i can spend on the kit,is the steering rack that much better on the 200 for the extra ammount of money? When racing if the 200 has the edge then its worth spending the extra on it, every little hepls ??
I know from racing my MX5 Mk1 that its worth spending that extra to start with, my MX5 cost me £5000, it was a new build from a road car, so had not been raced, all panels were nice and new and shiny etc etc, i could have got a ex race proven car for around a £1500 more but it also was around 3 hours drive each way further and had a few dents and scrapes, so went for the nearer and cheaper nice looking car option, i have now spent around the same ammount of money on the car and still it is not 100%, so looking back should i have gone for the other one, yes.
On the same day around the same track how much quicker will the 200 be? if i knew that then i could decide which to buy, as always money is a factor but as said above its better to buy the right one first time? ? ?

Do you know what parts of the Rally car suspension they're fitting?

 

[nicfred]

Do you know what parts of the Rally car suspension they're fitting?

No i dont yet, i have called the office and was given a little information, then i was given a mobile number and each time i have called it has gone to answer phone or no response, so i will call again tomorrow and hopefully get the answers i need??

Any questions anyone think i need to ask ??