front shock removal question

[suj]

No worries.

Also now you understand the above, the 200 cups (both early and late...yes both different dimensions as I mentioned above about bigger and smaller diameter springs) were 5% stiffer than 197 cups in the dampers.

Also rears never changed over the years in design, so you can fit any (but as above, the 200 cup ones are 5% stiffer).

Good luck, you're doing the right thing by doing the research, as it's a pain in the arse when you go to fit and you have all this mismatch. Researching on the fly is stressful!

 

[197JST]

Thanks Suj, I really appreciate your help,

Its not a job Im planning on rushing as Ive never done it before, so no doubt Ill hit a few issues, but planning and thinking it out has helped, last time I jacked up the front which wasn't that long ago I gave the brakes a good clean down and luckily the strut arms dont look to corroded, so with a good spray of WD40 before hand Im hoping not to remove the hub carrier.

Ill keep the progress updated, but Its a few weeks away yet, finger crossed the springs won't take to long to deliver now Ive ordered them

 

[suj]

Also use a proper penetrating oil spray, WD40 is not one of them, something like Plus Gas spray or similar works wonders, spray everything a day before and it will come out nicely.

 

[link]

@197JST the weather stopped play today but I've managed to get it finished off between showers, here's the finished article:



It's quite a subtle drop, haven't been too far but first impressions it feels a little flatter in corners so I'm guessing spring rate is a slightly stiffer, the steering's a little smoother/lighter too so that'll be the new top mounts. It's maybe a little less refined over bumps but not crass by any means, think I'll be leaving it on standard dampers so fingers crossed job done.

 

[197JST]

Thanks for the tips Suj! Ill get some Plus Gas spray for it.

That looks a decent ride height, mines currently running lower but the looks of it but Im not sure what the drop was but its on aftermarket springs. ive ordered Eibach pro springs with front axle drop 20mm rear axle drop 25mm, so Im expecting to increase the ride height on mine slightly but so looking forward to getting it fitted now as it will completely transform the drive.

Out of interest what torque setting did you go for on the front nut? This must have some level control over the front drop?

Ill get some pics up once I get started on it, Im just waiting for some time off work in a couple of weeks time.

 

[link]

You mean the top nut? It's 62Nm in the book, at no that shouldn't make any difference as damper rod should be hard up on the cup in the top mount...

I've attached some documents from dialogys

 

[197JST]

This is brilliant thank you for this reference material! Ill defo be referring to this

 

[link]

One word of warning though, it states caliper bolts should be 102(170)Nm, I think it's misprint as 170 felt to me like it would strip the aluminum threads out, I go by feel and 110Nm feels plenty tight...

 

[massivewangers]

Just to add to this, as I did mine this week...

I used spring compressors to 'shorten' the damper assembly slightly, which made removal easier. You won't get them out without doing this, unless you remove the whole hub assembly. I did lower arms at the same time, so that gave me a bit of extra room. One of mine really took some persuasion to get out of the hub, as it was pretty well corroded into it. Getting the new one in took a bit of effort too. Make sure you have piece of wood and a decent hammer to hand. Don't hit the hub directly, but put the wood on it and hit that. The hub is cast aluminium, so you could damage it by hammering it directly. While one side of mine was a pain to get out of the hub, the other came out really easily.

I wouldn't worry too much about pulling the driveshafts out, as there is a bit of leeway in them. Driver's side has an intermediate bearing anyway, so you'd only pull the outer part out, rather than pulling it out of the gearbox. I've definitely worked on worse cars for that.

One thing I would say is that, personally, unless you know that the dampers are really low mileage, I would just replace them if you're changing springs. A new damper and top mount is usually less than £100 per side from RPD, so probably worth doing. It would be a pain in the backside to take it all apart, fit new springs, put it all back together and then have to do it all over again a couple of months later because a damper or top mount has subsequently worn out. The car will ride and handle badly on worn dampers too.

I decided to save a little bit of money and reuse my original bump stops and dust covers, but I'm not sure if I should have bothered on reflection. Mine were in good condition, so fine to be used again, but getting the old damper assembly apart was a bit of a pain. One of the Allen key sockets rounded off, while the other cracked. I could have tried to hold the shaft, but I just ended up cutting the spring off with a grinder, then just cut the damper shaft and slid the bump stops off. A bit extreme, but it was quick and they were only going in the scrap bin anyway! It ended up being a lot more faff than just buying new bump stops either way.

It's not too bad a job overall though, just take your time if you're not sure. Plenty of help from people on here if you need it.

Oh, and definitely check your bulkhead drains while you have the trim off, especially the driver's side one. Mine were blocked.

 

[turkie172]

I got a few tools I had to change the front springs on a 2005 Modus as one had broken and the whole thing was a major pain in the ass the springs have so few coils and are at such an angle you cant get the two and one finger spring compressors to sit they kept slipping. Because of the lockdown I went a bit mad and ended up with two tools.

A old model genuine Renault service tool as I had seen an old Peugeot one and thought that's the job most likely not available because of health and safety it fits under the deck of the spring the two arms go up and pull down the spring to the deck and the band stops the pull legs from moving. I am going to see if I can get a base plate made with stand off pins to keep the base plate level there is a very expensive German one for working with VW and BM's




Any way I bought one of these as well which did the job but on the modus with very few coils you had to grab the spring far enough away from the deck and top strut but still have enough spring to compress I wound up disconnecting the decks and knocking them out from being trapped Modus springs are a complete ass of a job. The jaws on the tool below are not flat they spiral with the spring if the jaws were flat you could put it under the shock spring deck and pull the spring down. The above tool circled is a speeder tool it goes though the shock clamp bolt holes and you screw in a taper from the back that opens grip of the hub on the shock there is also a socket with an oval head that does the same job but would work better on steel I think it would cut into the aluminum casting also heat on the aluminum clamp neck might help reduce the grip on the shock.

 

[197JST]

Yes Ive already taken the scuttle panel off and cleaned out the bulkhead drains, mine was well blocked on the drivers side, I detected this with a pool of water in the bay just behind the area behind were the top mounts are.
I thought id try removing the wipers / scuttle panel and the plastic panels to clean it up and inspect as I didn't want to come to it and take everything off and then get totally stuck trying to remember where everything is.

This thread alone now have provided me with valuable information Ill need to when carrying out the work.

I do plan on taking some pictures and demonstrate the steps I take for removing and replacing the suspension, and the graphics that Suj has posted is just whats needed.

I aint gonna lie though Im still a bit confused as the whether I need to order the bump stops but from what I understand these are part of the top mount kits along with the bearing, its on order now to ill post up what comes in the kit from RPD.

keep the posts coming with any tips as im sure this will help loads of us trying to do this job on the drive.

I have some spring compressors, the pair from Halfords but thinking about it, Im not sure they'll compress the spring enough without the arm hitting the top of the inside of where the top mount sits when you tighten it up to compress the spring, if that makes sense? Ive got a feeling the positioning of the compressor is an art in itself. Finger crossed

 

[suj]

I think you got confused, top mount kit is just the top mount + bearing.
Bump stop comes in a kit with the dust boot. So unless you want to take apart your old suspension to get it off, I think you should order it
Speak to RPD and get it added to your order (rear dampers when you order new come with bump stops and dust boots).

 

[massivewangers]

Definitely order them, so you don't have to mess about like I did

You can then preassemble the spring/damper unit before you start.

 

[Scalino65]

Yes Ive already taken the scuttle panel off and cleaned out the bulkhead drains, mine was well blocked on the drivers side, I detected this with a pool of water in the bay just behind the area behind were the top mounts are.
I thought id try removing the wipers / scuttle panel and the plastic panels to clean it up and inspect as I didn't want to come to it and take everything off and then get totally stuck trying to remember where everything is.

This thread alone now have provided me with valuable information Ill need to when carrying out the work.

I do plan on taking some pictures and demonstrate the steps I take for removing and replacing the suspension, and the graphics that Suj has posted is just whats needed.

I aint gonna lie though Im still a bit confused as the whether I need to order the bump stops but from what I understand these are part of the top mount kits along with the bearing, its on order now to ill post up what comes in the kit from RPD.

keep the posts coming with any tips as im sure this will help loads of us trying to do this job on the drive.

I have some spring compressors, the pair from Halfords but thinking about it, Im not sure they'll compress the spring enough without the arm hitting the top of the inside of where the top mount sits when you tighten it up to compress the spring, if that makes sense? Ive got a feeling the positioning of the compressor is an art in itself. Finger crossed

Hi. I bought some Halfords spring compressors for this job too. The trouble is that they are a bit long and you cant get much compression before you hit the inner wings as you say above.. I cut mine down by about two inches to allow access. I also bought a second set which helped alot as I found i sometimes needed a third one to get the compression that I needed when I had the spring off the car.
Just to clarify - i bought the top mounts, gaiters, springs and shocks from RPD and the bump stops dont come included with any of those parts. I took them off the old shocks and put onto the new as they were in perfect nick. Unfortunately, as I had rounded the allen bolts off on the old shocks, it meant cutting the top nuts off the old top mounts...in short, I made good use of an angle grinder and cutting disc!
Having just done this, do shout if you get stuck, happy to help!
cheers
Will

 

[197JST]

Nice one thanks for the updates on this feed, for now Im getting as much information as possible and forward thinking so when I do come to doing the work Im hoping Im not missing any thing, so with all that you guys have covered has hopefully put me and many others that read through in a good position to do this.

Im still waiting on the parts so Ill drop RPD an email with the order reference and see if the bump stops can be added to my order.

Thanks for letting me know about the issues you hit with the Spring compressors Will! I was thinking that this might be an issue, I haven't got any thing to reduce the length of the thread so perhaps Ill have to do some searching on line. If I cant cut the length down I might see if there are smaller ones online, I do want to avoid removing the hub assembly if possible....

Thanks Massively for all your help guys!!!

I was hoping to pre assemble the spring / damper setup with the plan of switching it straight over

 

[197JST]

I think you got confused, top mount kit is just the top mount + bearing.
Bump stop comes in a kit with the dust boot. So unless you want to take apart your old suspension to get it off, I think you should order it
Speak to RPD and get it added to your order (rear dampers when you order new come with bump stops and dust boots).

My order from RPD has just arrived, the bump stop comes with the gaitor (dust boot) attached. I think there might be a difference between the gaitor set up with the 197/200 as well as the early top mounts & the later top mount set up, from the diagram they sent me the bump stop looks to come separate on the later 200s but comes with the earlier versions.

 

[suj]

My order from RPD has just arrived, the bump stop comes with the gaitor (dust boot) attached. I think there might be a difference between the gaitor set up with the 197/200 as well as the early top mounts & the later top mount set up, from the diagram they sent me the bump stop looks to come separate on the later 200s but comes with the earlier versions.

I thought as much, as I didn't remember buying bumpstops and dustboots separately.
It means you can now build up the front dampers without worrying about taking anything off the old ones (and most likely rounding the shaft allen head like massivewangers above).

Also get a pic of all the bits you ordered laid out, so we can tell you if you are missing anything.

 

[197JST]

I thought as much, as I didn't remember buying bumpstops and dustboots separately.
It means you can now build up the front dampers without worrying about taking anything off the old ones (and most likely rounding the shaft allen head like massivewangers above).

Also get a pic of all the bits you ordered laid out, so we can tell you if you are missing anything.

From the top we have the top mount/ bearing / bump stop / gaitor (all pre assembled) / strut. I’ve tried to capture the part numbers for future reference if interested. RPD did email me the diagram of the difference between the pre 2010 & post 2010 set ups if you are interested.

just waiting on the springs now

 

[suj]

From the top we have the top mount/ bearing / bump stop / gaitor (all pre assembled) / strut. I’ve tried to capture the part numbers for future reference if interested. RPD did email me the diagram of the difference between the pre 2010 & post 2010 set ups if you are interested.

just waiting on the springs now

Perfect, ready for the fronts to be built up once you get the Eibach springs delivered.
Are you also changing rear dampers? (They already come with top mounts, bumpstops and dustcovers etc on it).

 

[197JST]

Perfect, ready for the fronts to be built up once you get the Eibach springs delivered.
Are you also changing rear dampers? (They already come with top mounts, bumpstops and dustcovers etc on it).

Yes looking forward to the springs arriving now so I can crack in with it.
Yeah I ordered the rear dampers as well, the ones that are on it aren’t in bad condition but I thought it would be best to do the whole lot
So looking forward to getting it all sorted now