Engine fault.

[John Gordon]

Yeah, it was when we were tightening it (The tool i was using for the front of the cam's also slipped as it was so soft), and it was the notched part that twisted. We hammered it back into shape on a flat workbench, but it was a little tighter to fit after.

Pay cheap, do twice or something.

 

[Dumdum]

Even with a Renault tool you WILL bend it if you try and tighten the cams up with it in situ but wedged as I’ve described, maybe to 15nm initially, then remove the tool completely and tighten with something wedging the cam pulley to prevent movement, once both are tightened check again with the tool

It’s simply not designed to prevent twisting of the cams and you’ll never get it timed up correctly then Renault have a separate tool for locking the cam pulleys to prevent exactly what you’ve done which you may or may not have in the kit, but either way done rely on the opposite end locking tool to do anything other than set the timing

 

[John Gordon]

Even with a Renault tool you WILL bend it if you try and tighten the cams up with it in situ but wedged as I’ve described, maybe to 15nm initially, then remove the tool completely and tighten with something wedging the cam pulley to prevent movement, once both are tightened check again with the tool

It’s simply not designed to prevent twisting of the cams and you’ll never get it timed up correctly then Renault have a separate tool for locking the cam pulleys to prevent exactly what you’ve done which you may or may not have in the kit, but either way done rely on the opposite end locking tool to do anything other than set the timing

The kit I purchased had a tool for the pulleys too. It was basically pins that were supposed to lock the pulley's, rather than the gears on the Renault tool. The pins bent, which in turn bent the horse shoe.

 

[turkie172]

 

[Foxspeed]

my advice - back to basics and re-check what you have done ie cambelt & timing first - need to make sure its 100% first

 

[John Gordon]

my advice - back to basics and re-check what you have done ie cambelt & timing first - need to make sure its 100% first

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm going to do. Get the timing nailed then see where we're at. I'm fairly confident going at the timing second time around with the correct tools.

 

[John Gordon]

Hi All, Stupid question time.

I'm re-doing the timing tonight after work at a friends garage. Got the proper Renault tools and I'm confident this time will be a lot easier.

Just looking for advice on the belt. I'm overly paranoid and I'm wondering if the belt will be fine with being taken out of tension then back into tension again? Could this cause stretching on the belt?

 

[Foxspeed]

nope be fine as your only re-aligning it if its out - the tension is in effect pre-set from the tensioner pulley its not as if your removing the belt

 

[John Gordon]

Well, I'm stumped.

This weekend we re-timed the engine, and if I don't say so myself we got it almost perfect in regards of cam timing. (I've got a video to show how the tool slips nicely in and out of the cam notches after being rotated three times)

Engine run's much smoother with the new timing. It does not rock the car on tick over like it used to.

Alas, I'm still getting the engine fault lights coming on with the OBD reader giving the following fault P0340 - Camshaft position sensor "A" Circuit.

The dashboard warning says to "Check emissions".

Still smells super rich.

Lambda?

 

[Dumdum]

check emissions is a generic warning for an engine management fault, not nesc lambda, and if it were lambda related it would show up in diagnostics and not throw camshaft position sensor faults, glad you got your timing correct, but doesn't really help with the fault though

 

[Foxspeed]

check the wiring to the cam sensor

 

[John Gordon]

Hi Fox. Yes, I'll trace the wires back later today. I cleared the codes from the ECU yesterday. The Dash lights have not come on yet (Used to come on instantly) but after a quick run the ECU stores the fault again, just not throwing the dash lights on this time. So, something has changed.

 

[turkie172]

I have a feeling a genuine Renault diagnostic clip will give better information on the fault and is always useful at about £125 and a garage charging £35 - £50 to turn a light off I got mine for the 172 when having random limp modes with emissions light even had a general ODB reader but no use just error codes and ability to clear them. The Renault clip right away said second lambda sensor heating element fault.
"Still smells super rich." could be the lambda sensors reading wrong against what is expected check out the "4.DEF" or the cam sensor itself reading wrong that's the one at the top of the engine CAMSHAFT INLET SENSOR (1265) not the one on the gearbox TDC Sensor (149) there was some confusion on the forum before.

 

[John Gordon]

Cheers matey. Top advice as always. Thanks.

 

[John Gordon]

Hi All,

Back again.

I'm going to share my failure here so others can learn. As said above, I've been struggling to track down this fault P0340 "Cam position sensor" Circuit A. (This was using a bluetooth OBD2 Scanner and the Torque app on android)

To fix this fault I did the following...

1) Cam position sensor replace - Still fault.
2) TDC sensor (Crank position sensor) - Still fault
3) Full cambelt change + Dephaser - Still fault
4) Another new Cam position sensor - Still fault
5) Re-timed the engine after buying full Renault timing tool kit - Still fault
6) ANOTHER cam position sensor + Strip and clean of all plugs, check wires - Still fault
7) VVT Actuator and seal - Still Fault

Gave up.

Last night I purchased one of the Icarsoft RT 2 readers (I have macbook so did not want to go for Clip). It arrived this morning. I plugged it in and got the following fault codes.

DF093 - Downstream Oxygen Sensor Short Circuit to +12v
DF602 - Downstream o2 sensor heating power circuit open. Short Circuit to earth
DF119 - Camshaft Sensor signal, non-compliance with Pollution Standards (Fuck you!)
DF119 - Camshaft sensor Signal. Programme stops (Fuck you)
DF119 - Camshaft Sensor Signal, phaser measurement outside of the range

So, I'm reading that as I have a lambda sensor out which is throwing the emissions off. The engine is trying to time to compensate, is failing so dropping the VVT?

Don't only use those cheap obd2 readers. Go and get it read by a garage or at least buy a proper reader.

Question, which is the downstream o2 sensor? What is the right part number? 2007 R27?. Thanks (I think its post cat, but did not think this one was heated?)

 

[Sean197]

'downstream' is the one nearest the rear of the car. Not sure of the part number though, maybe @turkie172 can help.

 

[Dumdum]

Hi All,

Back again.

I'm going to share my failure here so others can learn. As said above, I've been struggling to track down this fault P0340 "Cam position sensor" Circuit A. (This was using a bluetooth OBD2 Scanner and the Torque app on android)

To fix this fault I did the following...

1) Cam position sensor replace - Still fault.
2) TDC sensor (Crank position sensor) - Still fault
3) Full cambelt change + Dephaser - Still fault
4) Another new Cam position sensor - Still fault
5) Re-timed the engine after buying full Renault timing tool kit - Still fault
6) ANOTHER cam position sensor + Strip and clean of all plugs, check wires - Still fault
7) VVT Actuator and seal - Still Fault

Gave up.

Last night I purchased one of the Icarsoft RT 2 readers (I have macbook so did not want to go for Clip). It arrived this morning. I plugged it in and got the following fault codes.

DF093 - Downstream Oxygen Sensor Short Circuit to +12v
DF602 - Downstream o2 sensor heating power circuit open. Short Circuit to earth
DF119 - Camshaft Sensor signal, non-compliance with Pollution Standards (Fuck you!)
DF119 - Camshaft sensor Signal. Programme stops (Fuck you)
DF119 - Camshaft Sensor Signal, phaser measurement outside of the range

So, I'm reading that as I have a lambda sensor out which is throwing the emissions off. The engine is trying to time to compensate, is failing so dropping the VVT?

Don't only use those cheap obd2 readers. Go and get it read by a garage or at least buy a proper reader.

Question, which is the downstream o2 sensor? What is the right part number? 2007 R27?. Thanks (I think its post cat, but did not think this one was heated?)

The post cat sensor is definitely heated, it’s more critical on the heating side than the upstream one as they have to be at least at 200-300 degrees to work right from memory and the lower is further away from the explosions so to speak so it will heat up slower, hence it having a heater also, the bad news is the lower sensor won’t effect mixture, it only measures the levels of oxygen that are coming out of the cat to test the cat is doing its job, if the upstream sensor is doing its job mixture will be the same

I have had something very strange previously where the cam sensor target ring had spun on the cam and threw the cam sensor faults in... bit bizarre though as in the case I’m speaking of I think a valve spring had snapped and a piece had wedged in the cam ring area

 

[turkie172]

OK my car is a 2008 Clio 197 and I recently bought both Lambda sensors After tracking the genuine number cross referenced them to Bosch ones. I think this was on another thread about Lambda sensors two types of connectors oval and more square type which help identify the part number. Mine are the black oval type and the part number is stamped on the body of the sensor.



Pre CAT = Bosch LS6046 - 0258006046 - Renault 7700107433

Post CAT = Bosch LS6294 - 0258006294 - Renault 8200036544 / 8200033618 / 8200035997

 

[Sean197]

@turkie172 excellent as always

 

[John Gordon]

Exactly.